NGD: Strandberg Boden Essential 6 Astro Dust

[Eagle]

In my 35+ years of playing, I’ve owned countless Ibanez guitars with Wizard necks, EBMM’s, Charvels, etc. I don’t like the feel of a flat radius. I play better on a 7-1/4 to 12” regardless of how long I try to adjust.

So you’re saying a flat radius is better, period? For all players?

It works better period in everything regarding the actual physical strings interacting with the frets and having the room to ring properly.
A way of pointing this out would be;
Two guitars one 7.25 and one flat with everything else identical. Set up perfectly and with the perfect relief and identical action and nut hight.
The flat radius would have between 30% and 50% more next fret clearance depending on what fret you measure it at . This is a huge difference and represents better tone as well as better mechanical performance. The difference gets even bigger if you bend strings. The 7.25 can actually fail completely if the start measurement is low.
Any radius at all even a compound one starts to fail as soon as you bend a string.
Any straight radius applied to non parallel strings has issues with the interaction between a cone (string plane) and a cylinder ( neck geometry) .
Now bend a string on this and it’s a mess off different clearances which equates to different dynamic performances and a poor guitar performance unless you set the action high and play within a narrow dynamic range. But even then different strings bent on different places either sustain or don’t and some even choke out all together.
This is all before you ever get to the person. A good rule of thumb is play the flattest radius you can but it’s really not opinion. It’s how much compromise am I willing to make to play a radius I like the feel of, or got used to. Classical players have always played flat and never complain that it’s not ergonomic because from a biomechanics standpoint it isn’t.
I know a some of people think that a lot about how a guitar is designed is opinion based but the actual mechanics of how it works and the biomechanics of ergonomic considerations are measurable and better is quantifiable. This still leaves huge areas for style based design but let’s at least start with a good chassis.

 

[Eagle]

A lot of things designed in the past were made based on non scientific assumptions that were “common sense“ and example would be bicycle wheels. Narrow 19mm tyres inflated to a high pressure were assumed to be faster than wider ones. Now we have actually done the research 28mm and much lower pressure is actually faster with lower rolling resistance and aerodynamics can mitigate the width with better rim design to control the air flow. A modern road bike is barely recognisable compared to one from 20 years ago.
The examples are everywhere. “Common sense” however apparently well founded is often far from the actual empirical evidence.

 

[2dor]

It works better period in everything regarding the actual physical strings interacting with the frets and having the room to ring properly.
A way of pointing this out would be;
Two guitars one 7.25 and one flat with everything else identical. Set up perfectly and with the perfect relief and identical action and nut hight.
The flat radius would have between 30% and 50% more next fret clearance depending on what fret you measure it at . This is a huge difference and represents better tone as well as better mechanical performance. The difference gets even bigger if you bend strings. The 7.25 can actually fail completely if the start measurement is low.
Any radius at all even a compound one starts to fail as soon as you bend a string.
Any straight radius applied to non parallel strings has issues with the interaction between a cone (string plane) and a cylinder ( neck geometry) .
Now bend a string on this and it’s a mess off different clearances which equates to different dynamic performances and a poor guitar performance unless you set the action high and play within a narrow dynamic range. But even then different strings bent on different places either sustain or don’t and some even choke out all together.
This is all before you ever get to the person. A good rule of thumb is play the flattest radius you can but it’s really not opinion. It’s how much compromise am I willing to make to play a radius I like the feel of, or got used to. Classical players have always played flat and never complain that it’s not ergonomic because from a biomechanics standpoint it isn’t.
I know a some of people think that a lot about how a guitar is designed is opinion based but the actual mechanics of how it works and the biomechanics of ergonomic considerations are measurable and better is quantifiable. This still leaves huge areas for style based design but let’s at least start with a good chassis.

The bends is where it's at, yes. I do feel that I can bend a lot more without notes going dead than I can on my other guitars. It's just that on the others I was probably used to leveraging the radius to "cheat" a bit while bending up - mostly a technique thing. I knew what I was getting into in a way since I did some research on the specs; mostly just experiencing those "specs" in real-life now lol.

 

[paisleywookiee]

It works better period in everything regarding the actual physical strings interacting with the frets and having the room to ring properly.
A way of pointing this out would be;
Two guitars one 7.25 and one flat with everything else identical. Set up perfectly and with the perfect relief and identical action and nut hight.
The flat radius would have between 30% and 50% more next fret clearance depending on what fret you measure it at . This is a huge difference and represents better tone as well as better mechanical performance. The difference gets even bigger if you bend strings. The 7.25 can actually fail completely if the start measurement is low.
Any radius at all even a compound one starts to fail as soon as you bend a string.
Any straight radius applied to non parallel strings has issues with the interaction between a cone (string plane) and a cylinder ( neck geometry) .
Now bend a string on this and it’s a mess off different clearances which equates to different dynamic performances and a poor guitar performance unless you set the action high and play within a narrow dynamic range. But even then different strings bent on different places either sustain or don’t and some even choke out all together.
This is all before you ever get to the person. A good rule of thumb is play the flattest radius you can but it’s really not opinion. It’s how much compromise am I willing to make to play a radius I like the feel of, or got used to. Classical players have always played flat and never complain that it’s not ergonomic because from a biomechanics standpoint it isn’t.
I know a some of people think that a lot about how a guitar is designed is opinion based but the actual mechanics of how it works and the biomechanics of ergonomic considerations are measurable and better is quantifiable. This still leaves huge areas for style based design but let’s at least start with a good chassis.

Why are you arguing what rings out better at low action, when the comment was about preference and what’s comfortable? Do you have all of your non-20” guitars up for sale?

 

[Eagle]

Why are you arguing what rings out better at low action, when the comment was about preference and what’s comfortable? Do you have all of your non-20” guitars up for sale?

No, I said it is a compromise. He said it is a matter of opinion but it isn’t and I demonstrated why.
I also said you can play within the dynamic range.
The example is to illustrate that even if you like a higher action the same setup on a flatter radius still has advantages in sound, intonation and function. It’s entirely up to you if you consider this important. Feel is usually just familiarity . The vast majority of my guitars are either compound ending at 16” or 16” ~20” fixed. I have a couple of outlying pieces but I rarely play them.

 

[paisleywookiee]

No, I said it is a compromise. He said it is a matter of opinion but it isn’t and I demonstrated why.
I also said you can play within the dynamic range.
The example is to illustrate that even if you like a higher action the same setup on a flatter radius still has advantages in sound, intonation and function. It’s entirely up to you if you consider this important. Feel is usually just familiarity . The vast majority of my guitars are either compound ending at 16” or 16” ~20” fixed. I have a couple of outlying pieces but I rarely play them.

You're being pedantic. You know exactly what he meant by it. 20" is way too flat for a lot of people to play comfortably. If you really wanted absolute accuracy, you'd be purchasing the True Temperment Strandberg.

 

[Eagle]

You're being pedantic. You know exactly what he meant by it. 20" is way too flat for a lot of people to play comfortably. If you really wanted absolute accuracy, you'd be purchasing the True Temperment Strandberg.

I guarantee you I don’t understand how or why people have issues with flatter boards. I just wanted to get a take on this. People say it but why is it uncomfortable? It only makes you move your fingers 2mm differently. Genuinely curious.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I guarantee you I don’t understand how or why people have issues with flatter boards. I just wanted to get a take on this.

Because it's painful to play many chords when it's that flat. If you want to call that "poor technique" or whatever, that's fine. But most people don't play with perfect classical technique.

 

[Eagle]

Because it's painful to play many chords when it's that flat. If you want to call that "poor technique" or whatever, that's fine. But most people don't play with perfect classical technique.

Is that only thumb over players? I wonder why 2mm causes pain? What kind of chord.

 

[Eagle]

Is it really the radius that causes the discomfort or the neck shape / thickness? I get what the ergonomic considerations for thumb over players with thin necks but not why a radius causes discomfort.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Is that only thumb over players? I wonder why 2mm causes pain? What kind of chord.

Is it really the radius that causes the discomfort or the neck shape / thickness? I get what the ergonomic considerations for thumb over players with thin necks but not why a radius causes discomfort.

I can tell you that for me, it doesn't matter the shape or thickness, with 16"+ it sucks. It's not any particular chord or anything. And no, I'm not a thumb over neck player.

 

[Eagle]

I can tell you that for me, it doesn't matter the shape or thickness, with 16"+ it sucks. It's not any particular chord or anything. And no, I'm not a thumb over neck player.

What is happening ? Why . That’s what I was trying to find out in the first place. What exactly about 1” ( 2mm ) is causing such a difference to play on?

 

[paisleywookiee]

What is happening ? Why . That’s what I was trying to find out in the first place. What exactly about 1” ( 2mm ) is causing such a difference to play on?

Dunno. It's just not comfortable. Like, the best comparison for me would be like an SE CU24 and the Holcomb, because besides the 10" vs 20" radius, they're otherwise similar. Playing barre chords on it is a pain in the ass. It's uncomfortable, and painful in my hands.

 

[Eagle]

Dunno. It's just not comfortable. Like, the best comparison for me would be like an SE CU24 and the Holcomb, because besides the 10" vs 20" radius, they're otherwise similar. Playing barre chords on it is a pain in the ass. It's uncomfortable, and painful in my hands.

Now you see why I was asking because it makes no difference to me in feel.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Now you see why I was asking because it makes no difference to me in feel.

I don't see how it couldn't make a difference. I can instantly tell the difference between a 10" and 20", or even 16". The feel is obvious to me.

 

[Jarick]

Congrats! I'd love a Strandberg and could easily see one being the "only one guitar". Especially if you had to travel a lot!

 

[Eagle]

I don't see how it couldn't make a difference. I can instantly tell the difference between a 10" and 20", or even 16". The feel is obvious to me.

It’s feels different but not remotely uncomfortable for either. If anything flat feels more natural.

 

[mavrick102000]

I'm really curious as to why they only offer Roasted Maple on the Essential line of instruments.

 

[2dor]

I'm really curious as to why they only offer Roasted Maple on the Essential line of instruments.

Their other lines have graphite reinforcement rods; looks like they went roasted to give the neck extra stability. I dig roasted necks - a lot actually.

 

[2dor]

Congrats! I'd love a Strandberg and could easily see one being the "only one guitar". Especially if you had to travel a lot!

It's awesome for "grab-and-go" and I can fit the Quad Cortex in the pouch of the bag it comes with.