NAD: Mesa Mark V:90 1x12 combo

[spawnofthesith]

That's so hilarious. I pretty much hated the BB because of the Mids.

That Custom Shop version, though, is pretty rad, as I recall.

I've never played the regular version but I really liked the CS one!

 

[la szum]

No matter the Amp, if it has a Master and Channel Volumes I am running the
Master up as high as I can and then using the Channel Volumes as individual Masters.

 

[EOengineer]

Yeah I've settled on these as my baseline:

• Ch1: Fat, 45W tube rectifier
• Ch2: Crunch, 45W diode rectifier
• Ch3: MKIV, 90W. Still undecided on triode vs pentode, I like both.

I also like the Variac power mode quite a bit. It does something nice to ch2 especially.

Dear lord this amp is loud though, even at 10W. I don't think it sounds particularly great at low volumes, but get it open just a bit and it's very nice.

I need to try it through the PS-100 next time, I just didn't have a spare speaker cable to use with it. Or it's packed somewhere, together with my stash of tubes...

Mark series amps definitely benefit from volume and are so perfectly tuned to sit nicely in a live scenario - I hope you get an opportunity to crank it up with other musicians. It’s worth it. Looks like you’re putting in the work though.

 

[madhermit]

On the Mini Mark Five head you can get a good clean sound out of the Extreme channel with the gain really low. I do that for a clean channel and use channel 1 in Crunch mode.
Maybe that works on the full sized amp?

 

[madhermit]

Also, I have an old 27” wide Lonestar 1x12 cab with a C90 in it. Sounds great with lots of amps. Maybe the combo cab is just too small to get the most out of the C90?

 

[laxu]

Also, I have an old 27” wide Lonestar 1x12 cab with a C90 in it. Sounds great with lots of amps. Maybe the combo cab is just too small to get the most out of the C90?

It might be a case of what I'm used to. All 3 of my cabs use Greenback style speakers and are closed back. The BluGuitar speakers in the Nanocab and Fatcab are a cross between GB and V30, and the cabs are ported so they sound way bigger than you'd think. On top of that the 1x12s have beam blockers and the 4x10 also has beam blockers on the top slanted speakers.

So by comparison the open back C90 in the combo is going to have much less low end and much more high end. The voicing of the speaker also has something going on in the upper mids that quickly gets into "loud, poky and nasal", which is the thing I didn't like at all as the overdrive went higher. That's why it helped a lot when I turned the bass up more and kept the higher frequencies much lower in all channels.

When using the 4x10 it was much easier to dial in and a lot of the "common wisdom" regarding Mark series amps like "turn up the treble, leave the mids/bass lower" worked fine.

It's not the amp as I tried the BluGuitar with the C90 and that exhibited a lot of the same characteristics. But because its EQ is basically a low/high shelf filter + midrange filter rather than a tone stack, it's way easier to "correct".

 

[EOengineer]

I’d personally drop that C90 into a sealed cab and see if you like what’s happening in that configuration, as the balance of the speaker will change in a closed box.

My Mark III was a combo when I bought it and I only moved the combo’s 12L into an oversized 1x12 to try it out half jokingly but it honestly floored me. I hated the sound of that combo amp originally - the different cab made a world of difference.

 

[laxu]

I’d personally drop that C90 into a sealed cab and see if you like what’s happening in that configuration, as the balance of the speaker will change in a closed box.

My Mark III was a combo when I bought it and I only moved the combo’s 12L into an oversized 1x12 to try it out half jokingly but it honestly floored me. I hated the sound of that combo amp originally - the different cab made a world of difference.

I think I'd rather build it into a head and just use the 4x10. That was much more up my alley, the main reason I got the combo was that it was A) cheaper than the head on the used market, and B) I wanted to test how it would sound in comparison. It's fine, but not blowing my socks off.

I guess I'd also need to try combo + 4x10 and see if that is in any way better than either one by one. Slave out -> Fryette PS-100 + 4x10 is another option for a two cab rig.

 

[newholland]

It might be a case of what I'm used to. All 3 of my cabs use Greenback style speakers and are closed back. The BluGuitar speakers in the Nanocab and Fatcab are a cross between GB and V30, and the cabs are ported so they sound way bigger than you'd think. On top of that the 1x12s have beam blockers and the 4x10 also has beam blockers on the top slanted speakers.

So by comparison the open back C90 in the combo is going to have much less low end and much more high end. The voicing of the speaker also has something going on in the upper mids that quickly gets into "loud, poky and nasal", which is the thing I didn't like at all as the overdrive went higher. That's why it helped a lot when I turned the bass up more and kept the higher frequencies much lower in all channels.

When using the 4x10 it was much easier to dial in and a lot of the "common wisdom" regarding Mark series amps like "turn up the treble, leave the mids/bass lower" worked fine.

It's not the amp as I tried the BluGuitar with the C90 and that exhibited a lot of the same characteristics. But because its EQ is basically a low/high shelf filter + midrange filter rather than a tone stack, it's way easier to "correct".

in all honesty, ive hit this amazing annoyance so many times. try this- eq off, dime the channel mids, and put treble and bass at zero. THEN dial up bass and treble. after that, pull your mids down. then eq.

basically what youre doing is equalizing from a level tone stack at that point, and icing the cake instead of negotiating with a terrorist

 

[newholland]

in all honesty, ive hit this amazing annoyance so many times. try this- eq off, dime the channel mids, and put treble and bass at zero. THEN dial up bass and treble. after that, pull your mids down. then eq.

basically what youre doing is equalizing from a level tone stack at that point, and icing the cake instead of negotiating with a terrorist

in the meantime, i know this sounds super counterintuitive to all the 'common knowledge' of marks- but its only common knowledge because people dont understand the rotaries and bail out with the graphic cause its theres. you can totally control your mids with the dials- just not how youd THINK. heres the tone stack at 0-10-0

 

[laxu]

Some clips.

• Ch1 Fat: Yamaha SA-1200S (think ES-335) w/ Vintage Vibe pickups -> Mark V Ch1 Fat mode, reverb on -> Bluetone 4x10 w/ 10" Greenbacks -> Shure SM57 + Austrian Audio OC16 -> Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd Gen.
• Ch3 Mk IV: Fenix LP Custom copy w/ Mastertone active pickups -> Mark V Ch3 MkIV mode + GEQ -> Bluetone 4x10 -> SM57 + OC16 -> Focusrite.

Phase aligned the mics, added a tiny bit of EQ from the UA Century channel strip and a UA LA-2 compressor on the output.

I'm pretty happy how the clean clip turned out. On Ch3 the amp sounded way bigger (and louder!) in the room than what I got on track. Need to work on my mic placement for that next time. The mics are mixed at pretty much equal volume here as other settings didn't really seem to improve it.

 

[Orvillain]

Both clips sound great!

 

[EOengineer]

I'm pretty happy how the clean clip turned out. On Ch3 the amp sounded way bigger (and louder!) in the room than what I got on track. Need to work on my mic placement for that next time. The mics are mixed at pretty much equal volume here as other settings didn't really seem to improve it.

This is where the lower GEQ bands can become useful, obviously disregarding mic placement or environmental acoustic contributors. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself nearly maxing them out for certain types of sounds.

I should also add as someone coming from a classical audio engineering background, it seems absolutely foul to use EQ so heavily but it’s just part of the Mark thing. There isn’t really another way to control the spectral content of that circuit. The tone knobs are more or less just changing your saturation characteristics.

 

[laxu]

This is where the lower GEQ bands can become useful, obviously disregarding mic placement or environmental acoustic contributors. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself nearly maxing them out for certain types of sounds.

I should also add as someone coming from a classical audio engineering background, it seems absolutely foul to use EQ so heavily but it’s just part of the Mark thing. There isn’t really another way to control the spectral content of that circuit. The tone knobs are more or less just changing your saturation characteristics.

I didn't use the GEQ on the clean as that channel works fine without it.

On Ch3 I ended up with the somewhat typical V curve, just less extreme reduction on the 750 Hz band. It sounded pretty thick and huge in the room at moderately loud volume. But sound bouncing around in a rectangle shape concrete basement filled with all kinds of crap is not exactly a nice studio.

Next time I'll probably try a different mic placement, or maybe dual SM57 in Fredman arrangement and see how that works. Maybe record the combo 1x12 as well.

I'm also interested in trying different preamp tubes in the amp. I read that a 5751 in V1, or a 12AT7 in V4 can help the sound of the amp. I don't think I have a 12AT7 anywhere, but have a JAN/GE 5751 and some older 12AX7s that might do nice things depending on what tubes are in it atm. I haven't even checked because they are annoying to access and have covers on.

Some tube amps seem quite sensitive to preamp tube changes and others just don't care.

 

[EOengineer]

I didn't use the GEQ on the clean as that channel works fine without it.

On Ch3 I ended up with the somewhat typical V curve, just less extreme reduction on the 750 Hz band. It sounded pretty thick and huge in the room at moderately loud volume. But sound bouncing around in a rectangle shape concrete basement filled with all kinds of crap is not exactly a nice studio.

Next time I'll probably try a different mic placement, or maybe dual SM57 in Fredman arrangement and see how that works. Maybe record the combo 1x12 as well.

I'm also interested in trying different preamp tubes in the amp. I read that a 5751 in V1, or a 12AT7 in V4 can help the sound of the amp. I don't think I have a 12AT7 anywhere, but have a JAN/GE 5751 and some older 12AX7s that might do nice things depending on what tubes are in it atm. I haven't even checked because they are annoying to access and have covers on.

Some tube amps seem quite sensitive to preamp tube changes and others just don't care.

I do appreciate lower gain tubes in these circuits. I have a 5751 in my Studio Preamp. I’ve also liked 12at7 in the phase inverter on my Mark III and Dual Rectifier.

Be careful with the 12at7 in gain stages. They won’t damage anything but the 5751 is a better fit there as it’s closer operationally to a 12ax7 just with a lower gain factor.

I’ve also liked the JJ803s in V1 even though Ive hated every other JJ preamp tube I’ve tried.

 

[laxu]

I do appreciate lower gain tubes in these circuits. I have a 5751 in my Studio Preamp. I’ve also liked 12at7 in the phase inverter on my Mark III and Dual Rectifier.

Be careful with the 12at7 in gain stages. They won’t damage anything but the 5751 is a better fit there as it’s closer operationally to a 12ax7 just with a lower gain factor.

I’ve also liked the JJ803s in V1 even though Ive hated every other JJ preamp tube I’ve tried.

Ooh, I have a JJ ECC803S long plate somewhere. It was my favorite in the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL V1 slot as it seemed to do nice things for the clean channel.

 

[EOengineer]

Ooh, I have a JJ ECC803S long plate somewhere. It was my favorite in the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL V1 slot as it seemed to do nice things for the clean channel.

Those long plates sometimes cannot tolerate the vibrations in a combo amp - just keep an eye out for extra noise. Probably a non issue if you’re using your 4x10.

FWIW I’ve not had night and day revelations rolling tubes like this. I think you mostly end up modifying compression characteristics but it adds up and I think becomes more apparent with volume.

 

[laxu]

Those long plates sometimes cannot tolerate the vibrations in a combo amp - just keep an eye out for extra noise. Probably a non issue if you’re using your 4x10.

FWIW I’ve not had night and day revelations rolling tubes like this. I think you mostly end up modifying compression characteristics but it adds up and I think becomes more apparent with volume.

Yeah they are also prone to being microphonic at very loud volumes.

Tube rolling is more like fine tuning, it's subtle details that might make a difference.

If the amp has stock Mesa branded 12AX7s, any idea what those actually are?

 

[EOengineer]

Yeah they are also prone to being microphonic at very loud volumes.

Tube rolling is more like fine tuning, it's subtle details that might make a difference.

If the amp has stock Mesa branded 12AX7s, any idea what those actually are?

IIRC they could be anything. Last I saw they were using any combination of Russian and Chinese tubes - screened for whatever Mesa’s standards are. I’d probably leave them and just start with V1 and maybe the phase inverter and see what you think.

 

[newholland]

This is where the lower GEQ bands can become useful, obviously disregarding mic placement or environmental acoustic contributors. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself nearly maxing them out for certain types of sounds.

I should also add as someone coming from a classical audio engineering background, it seems absolutely foul to use EQ so heavily but it’s just part of the Mark thing. There isn’t really another way to control the spectral content of that circuit. The tone knobs are more or less just changing your saturation characteristics.

if you want MODERN gain tones, i aint gonna disagree. i think that v is what gets you there. i know the 'metal' tones i'd get outa my eqless version arent what most modern metal dudes would want without pullin all the pulls and goin ham on gain. itll chug, in the interwebz lingo, but probably not in a way thats as pleasing to modern ears