Line 6 Metallurgy

[LP59]

Yes, but Metallurgy is modeled after the NDSP archetype plugins. The current versions of those plugins are nearly indistinguishable from their original versions. My response to the OP is: people who lust after updates with new features are simply not the intended audience for Metallurgy. Those people should be looking at Helix Native.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

 

[FPFL]

Yes, but Metallurgy is modeled after the NDSP archetype plugins. The current versions of those plugins are nearly indistinguishable from their original versions. My response to the OP is: people who lust after updates with new features are simply not the intended audience for Metallurgy. Those people should be looking at Helix Native.

I resecptfully disagree. This isn't vendor specific at all. I want to make that very clear.

In the digital audio world the failure to update at all is a failure. Full stop.
There is no explaining it as an "intended audience" issue. That's a redirection, defensive.

No 1.0 product launches as perfect from anyone, ever. Again. I'm not trying to single out any vendor.
I work in software for a living myself. There is a lot of pressure to get 1.0 out of the door b/c of capitalism.

No, not just for bugs, or b/c the rest of the tech ecosystem is ever changing and you have to stay compatible; Until you launch a full 1.0 you don't really hear from your users, to get the product to market fit right.

Metallurgy is good as is, but with a small number of tweaks could be great. The disinterest in doing that is not a "right customer" issue. It may be a revenue issue.

 

[LP59]

Look at it from Line6”s point of view. The archetype plugins are not a failure. They are very successful. Line6 is simply following that model and that model means the plugins remain virtually unchanged from the initial version for the sake of simplicity. You and I can see room for new features, but that’s not how the archetype model works, so I’m just letting the OP know that new features probably aren’t coming.

 

[FPFL]

I agree they probably aren't coming.

We can't look at it from their view though. We don't work there. As a result, we don't know if they are a failure or not. Never seen per product revenue reports from Yamaha, their parent co.

All we can know is what we see. A digital product being on 1.0.2 as the second anniversary approaches would not be a good sign for any product from any vendor IMHO.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Look at it from Line6”s point of view. The archetype plugins are not a failure. They are very successful. Line6 is simply following that model and that model means the plugins remain virtually unchanged from the initial version for the sake of simplicity. You and I can see room for new features, but that’s not how the archetype model works, so I’m just letting the OP know that new features probably aren’t coming.

what makes NDSP plugins successful?

- good marketing
- official brand licensing/famous guitarist endorsements
- beautiful UI’s

If I was to think of 3 things the Metallurgy line could have done better to compete with NDSP, I wonder what they’d be….

 

[LP59]

what makes NDSP plugins successful?

- good marketing
- official brand licensing/famous guitarist endorsements
- beautiful UI’s

If I was to think of 3 things the Metallurgy line could have done better to compete with NDSP, I wonder what they’d be….

I agree they could have done a better job of copying the archetype playbook, but the fact is they are copying the archetype playbook. All I'm saying is: that playbook dictates no new features. Whether we technophiles like that strategy or not doesn't enter into it :).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I agree they could have done a better job of copying the archetype playbook, but the fact is they are copying the archetype playbook. All I'm saying is: that playbook dictates no new features. Whether we technophiles like that strategy or not doesn't enter into it :).

TBF, the Neural plugins have added new features, albeit very slowly. Plini X was fairly recent and was fairly substantial.

• “Transpose”, “Doubler”, and “Live Tuner” global features.
• Metronome (Standalone app).
• “Octaver”, “OD/FZ Drive”, “Pre Delay”, and “Chorus” pedals.
• DI “Blend” knob (Clean Amp).
• “Low-Pass” and “Hi-Pass” filters (Graphic EQs).
• “Click-and-Drag” window edges to resize.
• New Factory Presets.

and amps like the Fortin Cali added new (requested) features after release:

• Artist presets.
• Graphic EQ.
• Time Effects section.
• Extra-Large window size.

But yeah. I think the main point is that Line 6 probably need to tweak a few aspects of Metallurgy's approach to make it sell well. If its selling like crazy, they probably don't need to do anything. But it feels like most people either don't know that it exists, or they don't know why it exists. That's on Line 6 to do something about.

 

[dronerstone]

Spite Plugin.

Probably didn't cost them much tho, I'd guess.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Quite interesting (to me) to compare what UA have done with their amp sims plugins vs what Line 6 did with Metallurgy. I wouldn’t say the UA plugins are THAT good, but they’re certainly making a larger dent than Metallurgy did.

The two things that strike me about Metallurgy are that Line 6 didn’t quite nail the product, and that secondly that they never fully believed in it enough to make it succeed. It took me quite a while to get the bad taste out of my mouth with Line 6 going from the old era to the new. I really can’t see Metallurgy getting any more updates, and it’ll probably be swept under the carpet when the Helix successor rolls around. Line 6 would likely point to the sales figures - unsurprisingly when the product itself wasn’t quite right, and the marketing was an absolute minimum effort.

It’s a shame because all the ingredients are there. I don’t think UA (or say NDSP or anyone else) are doing anything at all that Line 6 couldn’t have done.

 

[Sascha Franck]

No idea why anyone would buy Metallurgy anyway, instead of waiting for a Helix Native sale.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

No idea why anyone would buy Metallurgy anyway, instead of waiting for a Helix Native sale.

I already have Helix Native. I'm guessing you can't distinguish between the appeal of either product? Or is it a price/value thing?

Ignoring the fact that Metallurgy was essentially a dogs dinner, in theory having a plugin with a choice few bits of gear (and hopefully a more slick UI as a result) that I can also run in standalone is appealing. I love Helix for what it is, but you can easily just spend time setting up chains and routing and clicking and scrolling looking for things when that isn't always required. I like that multiple amp channels were combined into a single amp, and that each control and switch is laid out in a more logical way than just a straight list. I think Line 6 totally fudged the GUI of Metallurgy though. The idea was good, the execution wasn't, and there has been absolutely nothing at all since.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Yeah, Helix Native has no charm as dumb as that may sound. If I’m playing a plugin there’s already a lot less charm than playing through an amp - and if I look up and see a gorgeous rendering of an amp with simple controls it just betters the experience. That is why gorgeous UIs sell like hot cakes.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Yeah, Helix Native has no charm as dumb as that may sound. If I’m playing a plugin there’s already a lot less charm than playing through an amp - and if I look up and see a gorgeous rendering of an amp with simple controls it just betters the experience. That is why gorgeous UIs sell like hot cakes.

As someone that respects and enjoys nice graphics, amp aesthetics in general... I much prefer working in Native as it is, personally. I get the appeal, but a beautiful rendering is still just a rendering. Having the sound right is paramount, and enough for me.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Yeah, Helix Native has no charm as dumb as that may sound. If I’m playing a plugin there’s already a lot less charm than playing through an amp - and if I look up and see a gorgeous rendering of an amp with simple controls it just betters the experience. That is why gorgeous UIs sell like hot cakes.

So much this. The difference between amps, especially when using the same IR (as is often the case with plugins) can be very nuanced. Any kind of visual clues or GUI differences that makes us use the model in different ways helps to make the most of those differences. Stripping the UI down and unifying things makes sense when you have to use the models on a range of different HW.

Plugins have their own aspects and different limitations that can be taken advantage of. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Metallurgy GUI’s are even resizable. Not good when a lot of text is hard to read, colours are similar and often overlapping, buttons are small, and when there is a lot of information on the screen at once.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I already have Helix Native. I'm guessing you can't distinguish between the appeal of either product?

Well, without even willing to get into the old UI discussion too much, to me all that wasted space of Metallurgy isn't compensated by whatever visual appeal.
Having said that, yes, the HX UI could be improved in *many* aspects. I certainly wouldn't mind a smaller, maybe even kinda photorealistic UI for some blocks (especially amps, cabs and dirt boxes), the main issue however not being the photorealism but the fact that HXN's sliders plain and simple just suck. Add to the general suckiness that controlling them with the mouse wheel is plain horror, getting all the way to the top of the nightmare podium when using a Macbook Trackpad (I actually don't know of any other plugin acting up that bad).

So, having said that, yes, from an "operational" POV, I can understand the appeal Metallurgy has (even if it's defenitely not because of the looks for me).
However, given VFM, HXN is an incredibly better deal. And I'm sure I can operate it as quickly as I could operate Metallurgy, even with all the mentioned UI quirks of HXN.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Well, without even willing to get into the old UI discussion too much, to me all that wasted space of Metallurgy isn't compensated by whatever visual appeal.
Having said that, yes, the HX UI could be improved in *many* aspects. I certainly wouldn't mind a smaller, maybe even kinda photorealistic UI for some blocks (especially amps, cabs and dirt boxes), the main issue however not being the photorealism but the fact that HXN's sliders plain and simple just suck. Add to the general suckiness that controlling them with the mouse wheel is plain horror, getting all the way to the top of the nightmare podium when using a Macbook Trackpad (I actually don't know of any other plugin acting up that bad).

So, having said that, yes, from an "operational" POV, I can understand the appeal Metallurgy has (even if it's defenitely not because of the looks for me).
However, given VFM, HXN is an incredibly better deal. And I'm sure I can operate it as quickly as I could operate Metallurgy, even with all the mentioned UI quirks of HXN.

IMO the issues of Metallurgy shouldn’t really have anything to do with Helix. The only reason Helix gets compared is because Metallurgy was a misfire.

I think something else important to acknowledge with plugins generally is that you have the complete freedom already to mix and match with all your favourite other plugins, and route freely.

These aren’t so possible to do on a HW modeller, so having the kitchen sink is way more important. When I use STL Amphub, or Amplitube, or Helix, or Amp Room, or Amp Box 95% of the time I’ll just swerve the included FX in favour of dedicated plugins.

I get why Metallurgy has the FX that it does but overall there is just too much going on visually. It needs a cut throat approach with a clear goal on the interface. As soon as you cross that threshold, it just becomes easier to bypass entire blocks and use external plugins.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I get why Metallurgy has the FX that it does but overall there is just too much going on visually. It needs a cut throat approach with a clear goal on the interface. As soon as you cross that threshold, it just becomes easier to bypass entire blocks and use external plugins.

Yep, at some point they become a distraction and pain to navigate. I don't need a grungy looking pedal or amp graphic to inspire me to play grungy. I don't sit there and stare at a graphic when I'm playing something -- I either have my eyes closed or staring to another part of the room where a real amp is sitting, not being used at the moment.

 

[ian_dissonance]

It probably would have done better if Line 6 was into playing the “get everything in the hands of the popular YouTuber” game. The GUI is fine, it was just a poorly advertised product that probably didn’t sell well for that reason and now it’s going to be left behind. It take like 3 additional brain cells to get non-standalone plugins working outside of a DAW if you want.

 

[laxu]

Yeah, Helix Native has no charm as dumb as that may sound. If I’m playing a plugin there’s already a lot less charm than playing through an amp - and if I look up and see a gorgeous rendering of an amp with simple controls it just betters the experience. That is why gorgeous UIs sell like hot cakes.

Helix Native's issues are primarily because it's so heavily tied to the hardware version where those sliders etc make tons of sense.

It's just that Line6 did absolutely nothing to make it a better experience on the desktop.