Line 6 ... Behind the Scene's / Open Day

[JiveTurkey]

Boss is lazy. And doesn't try to pass the $1k mark. So they get by with horrific legacy amps.

 

[BenIfin]

Many of those great tones of the past are basically happy accidents from people misusing their amps in a "hey, this distortion thing isn't that bad, it gives some nice sparkle to my clean tone!" Even the grand-daddy of driven guitar tones - the Fender Bassman - is a bass amp that sucked as a bass amp because it didn't have a lot of headroom before it started distorting.

But now we have this pantheon of established great tones as showcased by our favorite artists, so anything that goes too far outside that framework tends to get rejected by the buying public. It's the same thing with custom amp models vs modeling all those established classics, and all the amps derived from them.

That's the real uphill battle Line6 faces - how to convince people that their custom models are just as worthy of standing up in that great tone pantheon as say Friedman, Bogner, ENGL, Diezel etc modern amps that have become accepted as household names. IMO all the newer Line6 custom models sound just great, so it's not a sound quality issue - it's a perception and marketing problem.

I hope Boss is brave enough to go for completely custom models for their next flagship unit. They're already halfway there and removing the arguably not so great classic amp models would remove all "ugh, it doesn't sound exactly like the real thing" comparison and it becomes a "well, I really like how the Boutique model sounds" discussion where the sounds are evaluated on their own merits.

I'd love for Line6 to go that direction, but I don't think they can, and neither can Fractal. The "models all these real amps/fx" paradigm is a huge selling point for both brands, whereas Boss is still "free" to go for totally custom models because the expectation from them is very different.

^^^ I agree.

I think L6 will continue to add "originals" .... but they wont stray from the table-steaks too far :)

Actually when I first saw the Pod Go Express I started to look for the buy button as I *mistakenly* thought they were all the original amps in one small box

L6 / Yamaha are big enough to do both.

I reckon Boss are all in on this ..... and they do it brilliantly .... I think their next "GX 1000" flagship will add / update the X-Amps and the Originals even further / broader .... and they will " X -if'y " their exisiting Legacy models. They are big enough to do whatever they want to do.

I think Boss are very smart .... they know that every company claims to have the "best" models ...... "17 sides to the coin" if you will ...... why try and squeeze yourself into an existing crowded playground when you are big enough to build your own playground and let players come to you.

Fractal ..... not a chance ... yes they have "FAS' Versions of classics but thats not at all the same thing .... and whenever I compared the FAS version to the original version, the differences were either inaudible or just a bit "weird".

%100 of Fractals reputation and selling point is their models ... in their words not mine ... are "perfect" / "real" digital copies of real Amps. They are too small to risk diversifying their "core aim".

Ben

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[BenIfin]

Boss is lazy. And doesn't try to pass the $1k mark. So they get by with horrific legacy amps.

Nobody - I suspect - buys and keeps a GT1000 or GT1000 Core or a GX100 for the Legacy models.

Ben

 

[three_eyed_otter]

but the Helix Floor is a no go for me because of its size.

I used to think that & now I have one sitting on my desk...Navigation on it is so easy & visible, I forget to look over at HX EDIT & definitely don't bother with the TouchPad on my Mac. I think the backpack should be an included (current promo) or highly discounted accessory for a new FLOOR purchase.

Line 6 is definitely building for the future to cross & appease the generations as nodded to in the video...The Pod Express has this written all over it. Maybe "Litigator" was too many letters for the faceplate or maybe it's polite subterfuge to have the newbie talking to their buddy in between Snapchat scrolls about the "Special" amp & they don't need pappy's Marshall 2203. Or, it at least it levels them in the future generations of modeler users. L6 added (slightly rebranded) the Catalyst amps to the HX line of modelers & all of a sudden there's more acceptance of them.

Have a good one,

3EO

 

[Digital Igloo]

I used to think that & now I have one sitting on my desk...Navigation on it is so easy & visible, I forget to look over at HX EDIT & definitely don't bother with the TouchPad on my Mac. I think the backpack should be an included (current promo) or highly discounted accessory for a new FLOOR purchase.

Line 6 is definitely building for the future to cross & appease the generations as nodded to in the video...The Pod Express has this written all over it. Maybe "Litigator" was too many letters for the faceplate or maybe it's polite subterfuge to have the newbie talking to their buddy in between Snapchat scrolls about the "Special" amp & they don't need pappy's Marshall 2203. Or, it at least it levels them in the future generations of modeler users. L6 added (slightly rebranded) the Catalyst amps to the HX line of modelers & all of a sudden there's more acceptance of them.

"Litigator" or "Panama" mean nothing to anyone outside of Line 6-centric gear forums, whereas "Clean," "Lead," "Crunch," "Special"... Those are terms any guitarist can grok when walking blindly into a Guitar Center. No obfuscation implied.

 

[Lysander]

I used to think that & now I have one sitting on my desk...Navigation on it is so easy & visible, I forget to look over at HX EDIT & definitely don't bother with the TouchPad on my Mac. I think the backpack should be an included (current promo) or highly discounted accessory for a new FLOOR purchase.

As someone who recently bought a Helix Floor, i agree the thing is not as unwieldy as people make it to be. I'd still love a smaller Helix Mini, but i'd probably add an external expression pedal to it anyway. Mine sits nicely in front of a FR-12 at home, and it's slightly smaller in width.

My main concern with lugging it around is that the thing IS heavy AF: 7kg, or about 15lb.

 

[JiveTurkey]

"Litigator" or "Panama" mean nothing to anyone outside of Line 6-centric gear forums, whereas "Clean," "Lead," "Crunch," "Special"... Those are terms any guitarist can grok when walking blindly into a Guitar Center. No obfuscation implied.

Have a good one


JT

 

[dean701]

I think we are currently at a crossroads. The modeling world has now successfully imitated almost all existing amps (apart from a few that I would still like to have #model.more.ENGL.),

Unfortunately I don't this is correct.
The audience expectations keep rising.
Some people are now expecting modelers to fully replace their hardware equivalents.
It is one thing to have the modelers sound like the hardware but so many forum posts lead to the fact that some users want the modelers/profilers to behave/feel/act like the hardware at every possible configurable setting. IMO I don't think this will ever get to 100% nor do I think everyone will truly be happy.
Me, I'm happy with any of the big name modelers as they sound great.

I do like the idea of unique models. I think for both Line 6 and Fractal, their own vendor models are very cool.

Awesome videos.

 

[timbuck3]

I think we are currently at a crossroads. The modeling world has now successfully imitated almost all existing amps (apart from a few that I would still like to have #model.more.ENGL.), now it's time for digital gear to emancipate itself from the analog role models and go its own way. I for one would be delighted to see more and more of Line 6's own creations!

SO what is next gen gonna be then? Gui's are from a to z now and all over the place depending on the company but seem to be getting larger????? Switches seem to be going to dual function more and more maybe? ? ins/outs are getting pretty standardized but some have better ad convertors??? We seem to be at a point where updates are the way to go and show the most promise in companies vs new hardware..but new hardware is kind of a must after x amount of time to fuel the excitement and progression of a company maybe???
Both are very great of course. Line6 what..8-+ yr run on helix hardware is amazing and seems the future wave maybe : to release a unit with futuristic hardware meaning its capable of lasting almost a decade and still stays up to date looks and gui wise...and load it with alot of space inside to keep adding updates for that decade keeping its functions fresh and alive.
I mean boss gt1000 is getting older now but boss has not really kept updating it with new stuff since its release but just mainly does bug fixes so it tells me they are more into releasing new hardware more often and expecting buyers to adandon old gear and move up. I think fender has this approach with cybertwin to mustang to gt amps and the tmp may follow this path.

The smaller chinese stuff seems to release units fastest and also seem to just release a new version vs planned updates.
Fractal is interesting as they responded to fenders tmp reverbs very quickly as well as gapless switching to keep up with the shortcomings some may think they had compared to others like tmp/boss..and from what i see has been moving quickly to address things and even release newish hardware. I wonder if having no big company over them makes any difference in progress?
Boss did release the gtx which was new hardware but not a gt1000 replacement so i think it would make sense that boss gt1000 replacement will look alot like the gtx100 in terms of gui/screen...but who knows..

 

[holoholo]

Part 2 @ 5:21, I'm glad someone said this part out loud and it's Ben of all people. I swear at TOP, a portion of users have this belief that if a pedal has less amps, it's somehow better because ThE cOMPany cAN spENd MoAR tIME oN iT (see UA Dream/Ruby/Woodrow vs Helix vs Fractal).

 

[Stone]

lol new Banner for TB3?

 

[timbuck3]

lol new Banner for TB3?

View attachment 19927

WOW... i am honored. I acctually did buy the helix at release and the gt1000 but sold them years ago.. you really should put the word RECENTLY after the never bought shit

 

[Whizzinby]

I'd love for Line6 to go that direction, but I don't think they can, and neither can Fractal. The "models all these real amps/fx" paradigm is a huge selling point for both brands, whereas Boss is still "free" to go for totally custom models because the expectation from them is very different.

I used to be in the camp that wanted primarily real models, but the FAS Customs have made me do a complete rethink. They are the first amps I go to now. There are some real gems in there, and several that I never liked the actual amp that was the initial building block. I think when you have the right people designing these custom amps the results (not surprisingly) are awesome. I’d love to get another batch of FAS amps.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I used to be in the camp that wanted primarily real models, but the FAS Customs have made me do a complete rethink. They are the first amps I go to now. There are some real gems in there, and several that I never liked the actual amp of that was the initial building block. I think when you have the right people designing these custom amps the results (not surprisingly) are awesome. I’d love to get another batch of FAS amps.

I feel the same about Line 6.

 

[molul]

I understand Line6's "appeal to younger audiences" approach. Playing guitar, or any instrument, is not as generational-trendy as before, so a way to "make it great again" must be found so we don't have a really niche market in a not so distant future.

If there ever was a Helix 2, I think the only thing that could attract me would be more power, to be able to use more DSP-demanding blocks and having just one preset instead of three.

Other than that, more custom amps are always welcome, although I'm quite happy with just a few of the currently available.

What I would really that we don't currently have like is polyphonic synth effects, oscillators assignable to parameters (like on synths), a polytuner (which has already been said to be hardly achievable due to TC-Helicon patents), and some great individual effects such as Boss BF3 or PH3, or some heavy-velcro-fuzz like the Shin-ei or the nice copy Sasori from SolidGoldFX.

Another nice addition would be a "snapshot sequence" mode, allowing for infinite snapshots that you can navigate back and forth during a song. The new snapshot mode they added in 3.60 (iirc) is close, but it can get a bit better.

All that might still be feasible on current hardware, so I'm not in a hurry for a new device with more power.

 

[Iron1]

@Digital Igloo, unless I misunderstood, it's mentioned that everyone who records with Helix should have Native.

Now, I use a Helix Rack to record, and a Stomp for live. I do that specifically so I have the same tones available in both environments. Am I missing something by not having Native, too?

 

[Lysander]

@Digital Igloo, unless I misunderstood, it's mentioned that everyone who records with Helix should have Native.

Now, I use a Helix Rack to record, and a Stomp for live. I do that specifically so I have the same tones available in both environments. Am I missing something by not having Native, too?

Convenience, mostly - it's (IMHO) one of the better plugins out there today, and by far the most feature packed. You can treat it as a Helix without DSP limits.

I also use it often to audition and patches for my Helix & HX Stomp. You can set Native up in compatibility mode for multiple hardware devices, so it respects their DSP limits.

 

[molul]

@Digital Igloo, unless I misunderstood, it's mentioned that everyone who records with Helix should have Native.

Now, I use a Helix Rack to record, and a Stomp for live. I do that specifically so I have the same tones available in both environments. Am I missing something by not having Native, too?

It's quite convenient for recording. You can just record the guitar direct input, and then apply whichever Helix effect you want, and change it anytime without having to record again.

For me, it's a perfect tool for home demos. Then in studio I'll use my producer's gear, but for sending him demos, it's amazing.

I could actually record an album with it, but I prefer my producer to work with his gear, for his convenience.

Lately, with my guitar, my Harley Benton Guitarbass, Helix Native, Arturia Minifreak V (the plugin) and Steven Slate drums, I've never felt more powerful in my home studio

 

[Iron1]

Convenience, mostly - it's (IMHO) one of the better plugins out there today, and by far the most feature packed. You can treat it as a Helix without DSP limits.

I also use it often to audition and patches for my Helix & HX Stomp. You can set Native up in compatibility mode for multiple hardware devices, so it respects their DSP limits.

It's quite convenient for recording. You can just record the guitar direct input, and then apply whichever Helix effect you want, and change it anytime without having to record again.

For me, it's a perfect tool for home demos. Then in studio I'll use my producer's gear, but for sending him demos, it's amazing.

I could actually record an album with it, but I prefer my producer to work with his gear, for his convenience.

Lately, with my guitar, my Harley Benton Guitarbass, Helix Native, Arturia Minifreak V (the plugin) and Steven Slate drums, I've never felt more powerful in my home studio

This all begs the question then: why have a Helix Rack? Should I sell mine and just get Native?