Learning a bunch of random covers and realized, yet again...

[JiveTurkey]

It takes a lot of work to learn someone's style. If they play a lick involving 1-3-4 fingers, and each note is even, yet you have trouble with your pinky and ring finger separation, your cover of anything involving that is going to sound different. To get it right, you have to find an exercise to use, and spend however much time it takes to make those types of sections even.

Just how fast your natural vibrato "shake" is, can be very different to one you're trying to emulate. The writer of that solo didn't "work on it"; he just played it the way it came out of his hands. See: Paul Kossoff, Ace Frehley, etc.

And players like Jimmy Page..., very hard to cop their style, because of the..., erratic nature of their playing style.

Assuming you really know how Jimmy sounds, just pull up any number of covers of The Rover for example, and see how many totally miss the mark. Too choppy, (staccato-like), not sliding into notes, not overlapping notes where Pagey did, extra note noises, too much distortion (just listen to how clean the solo actually is)..., all sorts of nuances that become the difference btw just playing the song, and nailing it.

There's even a "wrong chord" that the first time I caught it, then played it at rehearsal, and someone heard it and pointed it out to me, and I had to show it to them on the record. (maybe that's going to far, but hey, I wanted to nail it.) Right before the vocals come back in. Page slid down too far and hit an Bb instead of B for the 5th.

In just reading your posts; I know you take playing a lot more seriously and dig for the details vs. my approach. I appreciate that fact and wish my skills and brain could process and play other people's stuff to that high a level. I have to just do my own thing and hope that some of the mojo carries over


Thing about Page is he is obviously a brilliant songwriter and at a times a KILLER guitarist. The cheat code for him is he can be sloppy AF so that sort of gives you an out when learning his stuff that you SURE AS HECK are not going to have learning Petrucci

 

[Mikael Dez]

In just reading your posts; I know you take playing a lot more seriously and dig for the details vs. my approach. I appreciate that fact and wish my skills and brain could process and play other people's stuff to that high a level. I have to just do my own thing and hope that some of the mojo carries over


Thing about Page is he is obviously a brilliant songwriter and at a times a KILLER guitarist. The cheat code for him is he can be sloppy AF so that sort of gives you an out when learning his stuff that you SURE AS HECK are not going to have learning Petrucci

Kinda like Hendrix, the dude played songs different every single time you see him play one, so it's hard to replicate any of that to a T, but also gives you a lot of room to breathe playing his stuff. Petrucci, forget about it lol. I'm just happy that shredding solos don't do it for me so it's not really a goal of mine to shred

 

[DrewJD82]

It takes a lot of work to learn someone's style. If they play a lick involving 1-3-4 fingers, and each note is even, yet you have trouble with your pinky and ring finger separation, your cover of anything involving that is going to sound different. To get it right, you have to find an exercise to use, and spend however much time it takes to make those types of sections even.

Just how fast your natural vibrato "shake" is, can be very different to one you're trying to emulate. The writer of that solo didn't "work on it"; he just played it the way it came out of his hands. See: Paul Kossoff, Ace Frehley, etc.

And players like Jimmy Page..., very hard to cop their style, because of the..., erratic nature of their playing style.

Assuming you really know how Jimmy sounds, just pull up any number of covers of The Rover for example, and see how many totally miss the mark. Too choppy, (staccato-like), not sliding into notes, not overlapping notes where Pagey did, extra note noises, too much distortion (just listen to how clean the solo actually is)..., all sorts of nuances that become the difference btw just playing the song, and nailing it.

There's even a "wrong chord" that the first time I caught it, then played it at rehearsal, and someone heard it and pointed it out to me, and I had to show it to them on the record. (maybe that's going to far, but hey, I wanted to nail it.) Right before the vocals come back in. Page slid down too far and hit an Bb instead of B for the 5th.

A while back someone made a post at TGP- “Can you play like Jimmy Page?” and it was debated if it was a troll thread or not, the OP was stating that Page utilized “microtonal bends” when the rest of the non-Page worshipping world would just say “Dude’s bending notes out of key” and the sloppiness was “passion” while claiming no one else could pull it off because he was such a master at what he was doing….never mind the fact that Page himself never once recreated any of it because he was just going for it.

He was partially right, there was no way I could mimic the “passion”, but I spent a few minutes getting all the shitty bends-



I wish I remembered specifically what video the example was, definitely during the heroin days.

 

[mbenigni]

Then comes that moment when you're digging just a little bit deeper into the nuance of some tiny little trill (or whatever) you never even noticed before, even though you've been listening to the song for decades... You really nail it, and you're feeling like kind of a big deal... and it occurs to you: this guy was, like, 20 years old when he recorded this part.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Then comes that moment when you're digging just a little bit deeper into the nuance of some tiny little trill (or whatever) you never even noticed before, even though you've been listening to the song for decades... You really nail it, and you're feeling like kind of a big deal... and it occurs to you: this guy was, like, 20 years old when he recorded this part.

View attachment 53813

Me learning any Trivium song lmao

 

[JiveTurkey]

Then comes that moment when you're digging just a little bit deeper into the nuance of some tiny little trill (or whatever) you never even noticed before, even though you've been listening to the song for decades... You really nail it, and you're feeling like kind of a big deal... and it occurs to you: this guy was, like, 20 years old when he recorded this part.

View attachment 53813

Cries in Iron Maiden. "Look Ma; my hand fell off from trilling!"

 

[mbenigni]

Me learning any Trivium song lmao

Now imagine being so old you don't know what a Trivium is.

 

[mbenigni]

Cries in Iron Maiden. "Look Ma; my hand fell off from trilling!"

Ugh @ Supernaut solo has entered the chat. Speaking of:

 

[DrewJD82]

Man, vibe is grossly understated in so many areas and has so much more importance than technique, on pretty much every instrument. There are so many times I’m trying to nail something perfectly in the studio when just going for it and maybe getting some excess string noise or not holding out a note quite as long is the better choice and gives some actual feel to it. So much of the stuff we love is far from perfect and it’s all vibe.

I don’t think there’s a perfectly performed song in all of AIC’s catalog, in the sense of “How would someone like Petrucci play these exact notes?” and especially with the vocals, there’s so many sharp/flat vocal spots on those albums but the layering covers it up.

It’s the biggest reason I try to keep my playing ‘by the seat of my pants’ as much as I can, I really don’t like things sounding perfected and thought out. Practicing something over and over until it’s technically perfect is a great way of killing vibe.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Ugh @ Supernaut solo has entered the chat. Speaking of:

View attachment 53814

Iommi is in Page territory for me. Great songwriter but not someone who's technical prowess is untouchable? His bag of tricks Is full of things that i'm not comfortable with as a player but have the ability to overcome. Unlike an EVH, Dimebag or whoever in that skill level.

 

[mbenigni]

Iommi is in Page territory for me. Great songwriter but not someone who's technical prowess is untouchable? His bag of tricks Is full of things that i'm not comfortable with as a player but have the ability to overcome. Unlike an EVH, Dimebag or whoever in that skill level.

Obviously, I could monologue for days about Iommi (and Page for that matter, despite not being a huge fan)... and you can count your lucky stars that I don't have the time LOL.

All I will say about Iommi is that he might surprise you - particularly, if you sat down and tried to learn his leads and to actually sound like him. His phrasing is, for the most part, pentatonic; and on the face of it a lot of it seems primitive or even a bit arbitrary, but his execution is so distinctive and effortless... and just weird. I honestly have an easier time trying to keep up with the neo-classical shredder types than trying to sound like Iommi. The former make a certain kind of sense to me. Iommi is just... Iommi. (But in context - i.e. in trying to cover those excellent songs - nothing else will do.)

But the trilling. Dear God save me... the endless trilling.

 

[DrewJD82]

Then comes that moment when you're digging just a little bit deeper into the nuance of some tiny little trill (or whatever) you never even noticed before, even though you've been listening to the song for decades... You really nail it, and you're feeling like kind of a big deal... and it occurs to you: this guy was, like, 20 years old when he recorded this part.

View attachment 53813

Yeah, I had this realization a few years back, I think around the anniversary of the first G3 tour, when I realized I was then same age Vai was when I got into him and he’d already put out P&W/Alien Love Secrets/Fire Garden at that point. “What the fuck have I been doing with all this time?!”

Sometimes I feel like I woke up in someone’s body thats been on autopilot their whole life.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Working through (everything but the solo) on I'm Broken. Sooooooo many weird connectors in weird spots between individual bits of each section. Play it 3 times at the end of the chorus here back into the stomp bridge; play it 6 times here before going into the outro chug section. Good lord.

 

[TSJMajesty]

My striving for accuracy goes back to my clarinet days. My teacher was insistent on near-perfection, and TBH, it paid off when I landed 1st chair 1st clarinet in the MD Jr High All-State Band, and then later touring 9 countries in Europe over a 3-week period in summer, as the 2nd-youngest member in a 104-pc concert band.

You got graded on like 7 different aspects of your performance when you played in a small ensemble, and/or performed a solo w/ piano accompaniment, at the annual State Solo & Ensemble Festival, and those grades were what opened the door to be invited on that tour. And the audition for the All-State band was a motherfucker too! You walk into the HS where they're holding the auditions, and all you hear are all these concert instrument players just fucking RIPPING! Talk about intimidating.

If I hadn't lost my way when my parents divorced at 17, I probably would've shifted that level of dedication over to the guitar (I actually hated the clarinet), and gone on to a music college. But I discovered a bunch of new-found freedoms instead, started partying, and never really applied myself to the guitar in that same manner. At least not until several decades later, and it is quite the disappointment.

That's a HUGE reason why I admire John Petrucci so much. He had that same level of dedication for the guitar that I had for the clarinet, but he never lost sight of it, and turned it into arguably the best prog-rock band of all time, along with how highly he's looked upon as a guitarist. Oh well...

So it just stuck with me. I love the challenge of getting any song as close to how it was recorded/performed by the original artist. And the JP stuff..., my sticking point is always the same thing- the freaking tempo.

 

[JiveTurkey]

My striving for accuracy goes back to my clarinet days. My teacher was insistent on near-perfection, and TBH, it paid off when I landed 1st chair 1st clarinet in the MD Jr High All-State Band, and then later touring 9 countries in Europe over a 3-week period in summer, as the 2nd-youngest member in a 104-pc concert band.

THIS is awesome! I knew you played but didn't realize you toured Europe! That's killer!

 

[TSJMajesty]

THIS is awesome! I knew you played but didn't realize you toured Europe! That's killer!

Yes it was! Thanks. But I think I was a bit too young to really understand just how awesome it was.

Funny thing..., my mother came into the airport to meet me on my return to the US, while my father drove the car around the airport terminal loop. So during our walk from the gate to the front door, I about unloaded all the highlights of the trip to my mother, so that when we got in the car and my father goes, "So how was it?", I didn't have anything left to say at that moment, so I just said, "It was good."

He wasn't too happy about that. I think he said something to the effect of, "Well that's ok. I'm just the motherfucker who pays for all of it."

(Big surprise the divorce was right around the corner.)

 

[monwobobbo]

Start with easy songs. Success breeds more success. Pick songs in similar vein. Work your way up

 

[FuzzyAce]

 

[AlbertA]

So shredding does melt faces huh?

 

[DrewJD82]

Working through (everything but the solo) on I'm Broken. Sooooooo many weird connectors in weird spots between individual bits of each section. Play it 3 times at the end of the chorus here back into the stomp bridge; play it 6 times here before going into the outro chug section. Good lord.

That’s a perfect song for the feel/vibe discussion; even that main riff has to be played with some nuance or it’ll sound lame AF. Hard one to nail the tempo on, too. If the drummer drags at all that riff falls to shit and too fast it loses the groove. That’ll be a crowd pleaser for sure, though!