Kemper Profiler MK 2

[PorcinePicker]

I think, if Im understanding you correctly, you think MKii is nothing but a fraud. They wanted to increase sales so they are going to trick people into buying the same product with superficial changes only and telling us that it is greatly improved?
!

It’s remarkable what business folks can convince themselves of while inside their private echo chamber. No, I don’t think Kemper planned to trick customers. I believe that they overestimated the value and desirability of what they provide, and completely missed the evolution of the product space. This is their “the dog ate my homework” moment.

 

[BenIfin]

I just don't get them. It's like something changed between releasing Liquid Profiles and the Player. Management, marketing, product design, etc. - something changed. The innovative designs just fell off a cliff.

I still gig my MK1 Stage and honestly, I'm happy with the tones. But after everything the last year with Kemper, my next move is to QC or Helix STADIUM or Fractal. Which is sad to invest so much time and money into a platform but what am I supposed to do? Just continue to pay the same money for less usability, less features, less innovation than all the other platforms?

^^ Given Stadium is so new and will have "Proxy" [ ie: ML Amp Based ] Capturing in the 1.3 release which D.I has now said should be seen very soon around March 2026, for an ex-Kemper user, Stadium XL or normal is a no brainer upgrade to get top of the line [evolving] modeling and state of the art captures.

Make your own - or as he has said, there will be a flood of these available on Day 1 of 1.3, or very soon after from the big hitters ... TJ, Jason Sad, Matt Fig and probably even Mbrit.

Just my 2 cents :)

 

[BenIfin]

.... having just posted the above, it just dawned on me that it is currently quite likely that Proxy will release before KPW V2 !?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[LP59]

.... having just posted the above, it just dawned on me that it is currently quite likely that Proxy will release before KPW V2 !?!?!?!?!?!?

Seems likely. If so, it will be added to the list of the things that have happened since Kemper announced the new profiling:

- NDSP had a major update to the Nanocortex, adding many effects, making it comparable to the Kemper Player
- Line6 announced the Stadium, including announcing the upcoming Proxy capturing feature
- IK released a major new revision of the Tonex capturing engine
- Fractal announced NAM capture player support in a future generation
- Line6 released the Stadium XL
- Fractal announced and released the AM4
- NDSP had a major update, greatly improving QuadCortex and Nanocortex captures
- NDSP released the QC mini

By time Kemper's new profiling is released, it might be irrelevant.

 

[BenIfin]

Seems likely. If so, it will be added to the list of the things that have happened since Kemper announced the new profiling:

- NDSP had a major update to the Nanocortex, adding many effects, making it comparable to the Kemper Player
- Line6 announced the Stadium, including announcing the upcoming Proxy capturing feature
- IK released a major new revision of the Tonex capturing engine
- Fractal announced NAM capture player support in a future generation
- Line6 released the Stadium XL
- Fractal announced and released the AM4
- NDSP had a major update, greatly improving QuadCortex and Nanocortex captures
- NDSP released the QC mini

By time Kemper's new profiling is released, it might be irrelevant.

I am a massive C.K fan ... but even by the most forgiving and blindly loyal of assessments, this whole V2 Profiling "release" has been a catastrophic clusterf*ck.

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

It's all about real estate. There isn't room for any more jacks in the back. There are always compromises like that in these mini devices, but Kemper made some odd design decisions. There _is_ a workaround to get stereo XLR out, but you have to give up balanced output.

The right decision would've been allow us to at least change the stereo TRS 1/4" out to be the "MAIN" out - so that the main volume knob adjusts it.

Really ask yourself - who would run their main mix to FOH mono, and then run it stereo to their monitor(s)?

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

Sorry, I never really looked at the player at all. So the Player is $700, has lopsided I/O, no loop, starts with 4 effects plus 1 capture unless you pay more, had no display, requires Wi Fi for editing even though it also has Bluetooth (that apparently doesn’t work great at the same time as the Wi Fi), and has no display?

And it can do some other stuff but it costs more?

Who was this made for and who was/is buying it?

The idea for Kemper was an amp-in-the-box solution for your pedalboard. But again, the main out is mono xlr - so how do you run that to your guitar pedals after the unit?

It's basically a crippled HX Stomp with less I/O.

I bought one thinking cool, I'll have a Kemper on my desk to use instead of unpacking my Stage between shows. Then I tried gigging it over and over and it was always painful.

My favorite is Kemper advertised a $100 3rd party display to add to it. Sure, because that's the solution - count on another company to fix your bad product for you.

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

It’s remarkable what business folks can convince themselves of while inside their private echo chamber. No, I don’t think Kemper planned to trick customers. I believe that they overestimated the value and desirability of what they provide, and completely missed the evolution of the product space. This is their “the dog ate my homework” moment.

I don't think any of this was planned. Here's my evidence:

None of the MK2 products have physical buttons to control the new Fixed FX Blocks. You get one block at the beginning of the chain and one after the amp/cab blocks, but on the units themselves there is no physical button for them. You have to use Rig Manager to control them.

If you knew changes were coming, wouldn't you add these buttons? It makes total sense that Kemper were simply going to release an MK2 product with no 2.0 profiling, no extras. I have a feeling they caught wind of Helix and QC and suddenly scrambled to do something.

I'll be honest - had they simply released an MK2 line with no other promises, great. No problem here. I probably would've grabbed a new Stage. But the way this has all gone down, yuck.

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

I am a massive C.K fan ... but even by the most forgiving and blindly loyal of assessments, this whole V2 Profiling "release" has been a catastrophic clusterf*ck.

You simply cannot deny he is a great mind, great innovator. He created the digital industry to be what it is today.

This is why I speculate, what changed with Kemper. Since the Player release, the company has been a hot mess.

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[laxu]

I don't think any of this was planned. Here's my evidence:

None of the MK2 products have physical buttons to control the new Fixed FX Blocks. You get one block at the beginning of the chain and one after the amp/cab blocks, but on the units themselves there is no physical button for them. You have to use Rig Manager to control them.

If you knew changes were coming, wouldn't you add these buttons? It makes total sense that Kemper were simply going to release an MK2 product with no 2.0 profiling, no extras. I have a feeling they caught wind of Helix and QC and suddenly scrambled to do something.

I'll be honest - had they simply released an MK2 line with no other promises, great. No problem here. I probably would've grabbed a new Stage. But the way this has all gone down, yuck.

Don't underestimate a company's desire to keep costs down by reusing existing stuff and leaving updates for later. Those new blocks are mostly more "utility" grade effects so not having dedicated buttons on the hardware is not surprising. Not having a software menu to access them from the front panel however is bollocks, but I wouldn't be surprised if they add that later.

 

[LP59]

The right decision would've been allow us to at least change the stereo TRS 1/4" out to be the "MAIN" out - so that the main volume knob adjusts it.

If you have that linked to the volume knob, won't that do what you're asking?

 

[crispsandwich]

You simply cannot deny he is a great mind, great innovator. He created the digital industry to be what it is today.

This is why I speculate, what changed with Kemper. Since the Player release, the company has been a hot mess.

Yeah, I have wondered this as well. They had that part of the market cornered for a long time. The original KPA changed the game. I hate the term 'gamechanger', but it definitely applies to the Kemper. It was the first 'good enough to fool most people' digital unit that was sold everywhere and had a novel approach. I still remember the first time I plugged into one, it was just on another level to everything else I had tried. It FELT like an amp to play through, and the tones were top-drawer. Nothing since has ever given me that feeling, even as profiling/capturing is now done better by the competition. I have a mk1 and am glad we will be benefitting from the new profiles, but they got it SO right at the beginning.

I wonder whether there are some internal politics at play that we are not privvy to, because their actions as a company definitely seem to have changed in recent years - not for the best.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

This is why I speculate, what changed with Kemper. Since the Player release, the company has been a hot mess.

Remind me when their patent expired? I want to say it was that coupled with release of QC, Tonex and others. They realized they were so far behind that there was no catching up.

 

[Chocol8]

Remind me when their patent expired? I want to say it was that coupled with release of QC, Tonex and others. They realized they were so far behind that there was no catching up.

Supposedly June 2022 but I can't even find a valid patent. QC, Tonex, and NAM use a different approach and probably would not have had any issues, and actually both QC and NAM were around before the patent expired with Tonex showing up a few months later.

 

[LP59]

Remind me when their patent expired? I want to say it was that coupled with release of QC, Tonex and others. They realized they were so far behind that there was no catching up.

Christoph has various relevant patents, but they are all rather vague, so it's hard to say when "the" patent expires. His original one about profiling is the one that is probably most relevant, and that will expire next year.

However, most (all?) newer capture devices and apps use different technologies anyway, so I don't think the patent is all that important.

Whether Kemper is ahead or behind on profiling technology doesn't really matter to them since they are committed to their current design and it is nearly impossible to make any significant changes to it, so it is what it is and it always will be.

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

If you have that linked to the volume knob, won't that do what you're asking?

Because it links the volume of all outputs then. So, if I run to monitors too I have the same volume going to everything.

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

Whether Kemper is ahead or behind on profiling technology doesn't really matter to them since they are committed to their current design and it is nearly impossible to make any significant changes to it, so it is what it is and it always will be.

Honestly, I'd be happy even if they kept the fundamental core of their products. But it's been begged for in the forums to have a bigger screen on the Stage, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and True Impedance on the rack and head units, etc. Give me a player with a built in display and I'd shut my mouth right away. And none of these requests really steer away from the core Kemper model. Kemper is just refusing to change literally anything.

You are correct - Kemper products aren't going to change.

 

[LP59]

Because it links the volume of all outputs then. So, if I run to monitors too I have the same volume going to everything.

It will only affect the volume of the outputs that are linked, right? If you link only the one you are using as your main output, then the knob will control only that.

 

[BenIfin]

Yep .... thats the one ! :)