Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Enchilada Jones]

It is a fascinating thing, in terms of both technology and specifically music gear, to have the "one and done" thought process. Maybe he's got plans to do something entirely different next, as he did going from the Virus to the Kemper.

I always thought, based on his comments from years back, that the foundation of Kemper ‘profiling’ was for the most part as good as it can be.

Maybe that’s why, when I saw a MkII update announced I didn’t think of it as a successor but rather a significant update to what could be done within the realm of its core limitations.
So I guessed with updating the cpu power he has a way to optimize it. Not a next generation, not Kemper II, but still an update idea worthy of the implementation.
Thus why it doesn’t raise the cost of the product or add features like a better screen, etc. etc. if he put a touch screen on it and called it ‘the new Kemper II’ and bumped the price up but only added the mkII software features it would be a bad thing. That would justify the whining that we are hearing.

Price is the same so if you don’t have one already and were going to buy one definitely buy the mkII version. If you have one already you might want to upgrade to it or not. No harm no foul.

It could be the cpu change was forced and by choosing the one they did he thought he might as well squeeze the best out of the profiling. Certainly 15 years into it he has learned a few new things and the extra processing power gave him some extra headroom for innovation.
Seems like a good way to give sales a boost and extend the lifespan of the product with probably very little added expense to produce the mkII version.

 

[LP59]

It could be the cpu change was forced and by choosing the one they did he thought he might as well squeeze the best out of the profiling. Certainly 15 years into it he has learned a few new things and the extra processing power gave him some extra headroom for innovation.
Seems like a good way to give sales a boost and extend the lifespan of the product with probably very little added expense to produce the mkII version.

There is no extra processing power. The DSP processor is the same on the Mk2 as the Mk1.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

There is no extra processing power. The DSP processor is the same on the Mk2 as the Mk1.

I should have said CPU then. The point is, if logistics demanded a change in cpu it may have opened a door to implement more features/ functionality. Hell some or all of what mkII added might be things they had but didn’t use because they didn’t have room or power on the cpu?
They had the USB audio and some other capabilities in the hardware that were initially said to not be possible

That and optimizing and/or rewriting code (for DSP?) to implement improvements born from 15 years of additional experience may have opened up opportunity that he simply didn’t initially know was there. Any of that is worthy of a mk xx upgrade but not enough to warrant ‘Kemper 2’ next generation.

 

[LP59]

The point is if logistics demanded a change in cpu it may have opened a door to implement more features/ functionality.

It did. The chip that was updated allowed them to improve the boot time on the toaster. That's about the only door that was opened by updating that chip tho. It doesn't provide any additional power for effects or playing profiles.

I have the same impression as you, that the profiling is already as good as Christoph can make it. That's what makes the announcement about the "new" profiling so curious. How is it different than the current profiling? Is it better? If so, in what way? Kemper isn't saying, so we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Antipodes]

A lot of the focus of the announcement was on the cabinet part of the capture.

 

[Lysander]

They had the USB audio and some other capabilities in the hardware that were initially said to not be possible.

These are all handled by the main CPU. AFAICT, that's the only component which got an update with the MKII.

 

[Gary_W]

It did. The chip that was updated allowed them to improve the boot time on the toaster. That's about the only door that was opened by updating that chip tho. It doesn't provide any additional power for effects or playing profiles.

I have the same impression as you, that the profiling is already as good as Christoph can make it. That's what makes the announcement about the "new" profiling so curious. How is it different than the current profiling? Is it better? If so, in what way? Kemper isn't saying, so we'll just have to wait and see.

This isn’t what they’ve said on the Kemper forum. The mod there replied in the (long) thread - They’ve stated that the ‘new profiles’ will only be able to be made and play at the higher quality on units with the new hardware. Which is the Player and any of the Mk2 units. They’ve said that profiles made using the new hardware will still work on older hardware but won’t give the advantages of the new profiling method.

What they haven’t made clear is what the new profiling method involves, what does it do differently, what’s the real world advantage. I specifically asked over there if there was more apart from better boot time, some fixed effects slots and the new profiling tech. It seems there isn’t. For me, that answer has confirmed my choice to move over to a Stadium. That’s not me saying ‘the Mk2 isn’t worth it as a unit’. I think, if you don’t have a digital modeller at all, it’s still well worth investigating…. It still does a lot right and, because they’ve reduced the price, it’s certainly worth considering but it’s a much tougher market now competition wise than it was way back when the mk1 came out. For anyone that already has a Mk1 toaster, rack or stage? I find it hard to justify buying what is 90% the same unit where the only bonus (for my personal preference) is the better profiles. Even if they knock that out of the park, it’s still a tough upgrade sale to a happy Mk1 user who genuinely believed profiling was as good as it got. I had no intention of moving platforms but I cannot see a compelling reason to upgrade to mk2.

 

[LP59]

This isn’t what they’ve said on the Kemper forum. The mod there replied in the (long) thread - They’ve stated that the ‘new profiles’ will only be able to be made and play at the higher quality on units with the new hardware. Which is the Player and any of the Mk2 units. They’ve said that profiles made using the new hardware will still work on older hardware but won’t give the advantages of the new profiling method.

They have made it very clear the new profiling will not be available on the Mk1, but that should not be taken to mean the processing power has been improved on the Mk2.

 

[ian_dissonance]

So far in my little guitar player real world talking to other people who play, the only ones even interested in a mkII are the mkI owners who have long-in-the-tooth hardware. The only gear people are talking about lately in my circle are Stadium and analog preamp pedals.

 

[Gary_W]

They have made it very clear the new profiling will not be available on the Mk1, but that should not be taken to mean the processing power has been improved on the Mk2.

The information on their website says ‘upgraded processing engine’. It’s easy to think this means ‘new hardware’ but I completely agree that’s not 100% the case - it could indeed be same hardware used in a new way.

On their website, it only mentions the upgraded engine in the same breath as the the faster boot time as opposed to mentioning it *in direct relation to* the new engine to the new profiling. This might or might not be significant - I’ve enjoyed my Mk1 but getting clear info out of them isn’t quite as easy as I’d like! It’s easy to read bad intent there but often it’s just them being bad at communicating rather than anything significant.

On the Kemper forum, one of the mods said there were ‘technical reasons’ why the new profiling won’t work on MK1. Because of these things, it’s reasonable to believe that there is a hardware difference as they are sticking with the ethos that the new profiling / extra fx slots won’t work on Mk1 and they don’t see this happening. If it is proven that there is no physical difference whatsoever, this wouldn’t be a good look. As mentioned, whatever they’ve done isn’t enough for me personally to upgrade but I’m hopeful they would not go this route and that there is a physical difference, albeit a pretty small one!

 

[LP59]

I don't think the ambiguous wording in the announcement and comments from the support staff is bad intent or bad communication. The editing history of the announcement shows they are being very careful with their wording. Nobody can blame them for wanting to put the best face they can onto a modest upgrade, but it does mean you need to be careful about the assumptions you are making from what they are saying.

 

[northcountry]

I think the co-processor has been updated. The main processor is the same. I'm guessing more RAM too.

 

[Jarick]

The information on their website says ‘upgraded processing engine’. It’s easy to think this means ‘new hardware’ but I completely agree that’s not 100% the case - it could indeed be same hardware used in a new way.

On their website, it only mentions the upgraded engine in the same breath as the the faster boot time as opposed to mentioning it *in direct relation to* the new engine to the new profiling. This might or might not be significant - I’ve enjoyed my Mk1 but getting clear info out of them isn’t quite as easy as I’d like! It’s easy to read bad intent there but often it’s just them being bad at communicating rather than anything significant.

On the Kemper forum, one of the mods said there were ‘technical reasons’ why the new profiling won’t work on MK1. Because of these things, it’s reasonable to believe that there is a hardware difference as they are sticking with the ethos that the new profiling / extra fx slots won’t work on Mk1 and they don’t see this happening. If it is proven that there is no physical difference whatsoever, this wouldn’t be a good look. As mentioned, whatever they’ve done isn’t enough for me personally to upgrade but I’m hopeful they would not go this route and that there is a physical difference, albeit a pretty small one!

I wouldn't trust anything anyone says about Kemper unless it comes directly from Christoph or Kemper. The mods as far as I'm aware aren't developers or engineers. They seem to say and do a lot of things in order to shut down any potential criticism, and a lot of that gets repeated as if it were from the company itself.

I believe that all we truly know about Mk2 was confirmed by Kemper support via e-mail, which is that the Player will be able to create profiles and that a computer running Rig Manager will be required to create profiles. Everything else is speculation.

 

[BenIfin]

Time for some formatting and color !!!

It has to be said that the wording has been substantially watered down / "vague'ized" since the initial MK2 announcement - as of today the key bits are:-
----------------------------------------------------------
A new Era of PROFILING: KEMPER announces a new PROFILING technology for the MK 2 series. Availabilty is expected during Summer. Currently in extended testing with some selected third-party PROFILE vendors the new PROFILING offers:

• More than 100,000 individual frequency points meticulously analyzed for the most powerful amp recreation ever achieved.
• Next-Level Speaker & Dynamically adjustable Cabinet Resonance – Capturing the true dynamics of your setup with the longest impulse responses in an amp capturing device.
• Liquid Profiling Technology – Seamlessly integrate the original amp's gain and tone controls, transforming a single profile into a fully dynamic, living amplifier.
• Unparalleled Precision & Feel – A cutting-edge hybrid approach combining precise, deterministic analog measurement with KEMPER's industry-leading profiling intelligence

----------------------------------------------------------

My take on this is:-

-> additional Kemper Amp Model Gain and EQ Stacks - adding to the current list of ~ 30 or so Kemper "modeled Amp" Gain/EQ Stacks
-> the improved profiling is at least partially directly linked to the Liquid Profiling hybrid approach
-> the use of the words most powerful amp recreation ever achieved is so broad and unspecific as to be unknowable until the new process results are compared to MK1 results and other things like Tonex and NAM and QC

 

[LP59]

One other thing: "longest impulse responses in an amp capturing device" is just plain weird.

First, longer IR's isn't necessarily good. The common length of 2048 is usually considered the sweet spot. Longer than that can pick up undesirable room reflections and make the tone muddy.

Second, it's strange to qualify the comment to rule out modelers. That leaves very few competitors that they are comparing their IR's to.

Basically, they are saying nothing, not even that it will be more accurate than the current profiling. It's looking like there won't be any meaningful information about it until it's released.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

One other thing: "longest impulse responses in an amp capturing device" is just plain weird.

 

[Orvillain]

Basically, they are saying nothing

Thaaaatttt's our Kemper!

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

I forgot all about this and it was barely 2 months ago.

He got Discouraged (1 of the 3x we've used that option) for being a dipshit. He then went to RigTalk and told everyone we banned him because he dropped too many facts on us and we're anti-science.

View attachment 50982

I decided to call him on his BS, which you can read here- https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/threads/got-a-temp-ban-on-tgp.331829/post-4459142

He then somehow mentally gymnastic'd himself into this-

Thread for RevDrucifer to tell us how to turn down a guitar amplifier using a mixing console

@RevDrucifer has backed the claim that proper mixing techniques can turn down the SPL coming out of a guitar amp just by using the proper mixing techniques. Since I own a music school that frequently has to cover these topics, I am all ears to learn this new technique and pass it onto our...

www.rig-talk.com

One of the better displays of dumbassery I've seen on the internet yet. I had nothing to do with that thread he was "dropping science" in, I was just calling BS on him being banned as we never banned him and he went off the rails for about a day. I never said a word about any claims related to that thread.

That‘s what REAPER does to people.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I forgot all about this and it was barely 2 months ago.

He got Discouraged (1 of the 3x we've used that option) for being a dipshit. He then went to RigTalk and told everyone we banned him because he dropped too many facts on us and we're anti-science.

View attachment 50982

I decided to call him on his BS, which you can read here- https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/threads/got-a-temp-ban-on-tgp.331829/post-4459142

He then somehow mentally gymnastic'd himself into this-

Thread for RevDrucifer to tell us how to turn down a guitar amplifier using a mixing console

@RevDrucifer has backed the claim that proper mixing techniques can turn down the SPL coming out of a guitar amp just by using the proper mixing techniques. Since I own a music school that frequently has to cover these topics, I am all ears to learn this new technique and pass it onto our...

www.rig-talk.com

One of the better displays of dumbassery I've seen on the internet yet. I had nothing to do with that thread he was "dropping science" in, I was just calling BS on him being banned as we never banned him and he went off the rails for about a day. I never said a word about any claims related to that thread.

I wanna start an account at rig talk just to OT a “Drink Every Time The~Kid Boogeymans THE WOKE to Explain Why His Penis Doesn’t Work”.

 

[MirrorProfiles]