Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Dom Mcsweeney]

ali-assing

ftfy

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[Orvillain]

To me discussion about alliasing is boring as hell cause
A/ it’s either speculative how Kemper is gonna deal with it, or a “your wrong, im right game” which

We haven't been discussing how Kemper is going to deal with it. We don't know that.

But we do know categorically that the Kemper does alias, and at quite a high level. It is very audible. There is no room for subjectivity here. It is well established, has been measured, and thus it cannot be a game of "you're wrong, I'm right" - it simply cannot be. It is not possible. The game is "here are some facts" ..... "hurrrr durrrrr i h8 faxxxx".

B/ to me, may be about the workings behind it, but is of no interest to me as a user: dude profiles an amp, and is happy with the result cause it sounds the same to him (and his peers/customers)..that’s what I want to experience, and I can do that observation by ear and have an opinion on without knowing s**t about aliassing.

It should be of interest to you as a user. For a range of reasons:

1. Aliasing is unwanted distorted. It causes non-harmonic frequencies that don't exist in the original amp tone.
2. It affects pick attack and articulation. Aliasing artifacts often appear in the transients and upper frequencies, killing attack, and making the tone feel less alive.
3. Aliasing can create inter-modulations that affct how you perceive the sound; people might not even recognise it as aliasing, but they end up finding the unit fatiguing to listen to, or that it loses impact in a mix.
4. It accumulates in the mix. One aliased signal might be tolerable, but as soon as you record multiple takes - double tracking, add a solo on top of some rhythm guitars, etc - you're compounding problem.
5. It limits what you can safely do in post-processing.
6. You've paid a lot of money for a unit. You want to know that the fundamental sound quality has been solidly established. You want to be able to trust it.
7. Even if you don't care about the technical side, you DO care about the result. Another way of putting it is ... if you think the Kemper is amazing now.... imagine how much more amazing it would be if they fixed these very basic issues that it has.

There is simply no "stick your head in the sand" position that makes any kind of sense, logically speaking.

 

[paisleywookiee]

So it is unclear to me - they are saying it is "more powerful" but have they actually (a) upgraded the core DSP Chips / Power (?) or (b) is the "more power" from better written and more advanced FW and Profiling Processes running on the same MK1 hardware (?)

These waters are very murky !!

If they don't run newer processors, that's nuts. It's been 14 years.

 

[PorcinePicker]

If they don't run newer processors, that's nuts. It's been 14 years.

We kinda sorta know what has to be in the new boxes. The Player runs the same code, and a teardown has been done on the Player....right?

 

[paisleywookiee]

We kinda sorta know what has to be in the new boxes. The Player runs the same code, and a teardown has been done on the Player....right?

The Player is still considered "slimmed down" capability-wise though, isn't it?

 

[PorcinePicker]

The Player is still considered "slimmed down" capability-wise though, isn't it?

Since they're bringing profiling to the Player, the "Level 3" Player and the full Kemper are only separated by external hardware (buttons, jacks, display) afaik....

 

[JiveTurkey]

Can I also say for a device that is supposed to be simple and intuitive to use for live players across stages all over the world that it has become the most segmented, wtf version do I have thing really ever?

 

[LP59]

The Player is still considered "slimmed down" capability-wise though, isn't it?

Ironically, the Player has been the most powerful model, until the Mk2 models were announced. The Mk2 update brings the Stage and Rack up to the level of the Player. The main DSP chip is still the same as it's always been though. It's just the chips around it that have changed. It's murky.

 

[KingsXJJ]

So why is he doing it?

To make his father proud I guess.

 

[Mongillo19]

Thinking more on the idea of reducing the resolution of the updated profiles to run on the OG Kemper, I wonder if they can then "upgrade" the resolution of the OG profiles to make them in line with the new algorithm

 

[PorcinePicker]

Thinking more on the idea of reducing the resolution of the updated profiles to run on the OG Kemper, I wonder if they can then "upgrade" the resolution of the OG profiles to make them in line with the new algorithm

Granted we're dealing with Schrödinger's Kemper here, but the only thing they could do with the lower resolution profiles would be to interpolate the missing data. Would that be an improvement, or is it just what the existing units already do?

 

[Lysander]

Thinking more on the idea of reducing the resolution of the updated profiles to run on the OG Kemper, I wonder if they can then "upgrade" the resolution of the OG profiles to make them in line with the new algorithm

Probably already happens, under the hood, when you load "old" profiles into MKII Kempers.

It's basically just interpolation though, so it's not like your old profiles will sound better or anything.

 

[LP59]

Thinking more on the idea of reducing the resolution of the updated profiles to run on the OG Kemper, I wonder if they can then "upgrade" the resolution of the OG profiles to make them in line with the new algorithm

Kemper hasn't said what "resolution" even means in this context.

 

[Mongillo19]

Kemper hasn't said what "resolution" even means in this context.

Well yes, we don't know what any of this means. Hasn't stopped anyone from speculation nor should it

 

[KingsXJJ]

Ah, the lore of diminishing reburns. ATOADASO.

 

[Orvillain]

ATOADASO

 

[Joshual-L]

There's zero reasons for me to look out for whatever "cocked wah" sounds produced by the KPA. If it was a general issue, finding a video/audio linik should be absolutely trivial.

Just Google cocked wha tone kemper

 

[Sascha Franck]

Just Google cocked wha tone kemper

I said so already, I know the examples. But there's zero proof for "all Kemper profiles sound like a cocked wah". Buzzword nonsense.

 

[Joshual-L]

Pretty sure the cocked wah was discovered to be a result of the noise gate, not the underlying profile.

I was told that and it didn’t really help. And I can’t see

Thanks for that.

So I can see a butt ton of videos coming out comparing MK1 with MK2 when using the new profiles.

Very little admittedly.

All evidence to the contrary.

Their claims of accuracy have nothing to do with why I use the Kemper. I fully expected to be let down in tone quality when I sold my VHT and Fender tube amps and purchased the Kemper. My motivation for going with Kemper was completely driven by the desire for a lighter and more simple stage setup (I gig regularly so it is really important).

The fact that my stage sound improved was a surprise. The fact that I preferred 3rd party (some free, some paid) rigs to my own tube amps was a surprise.

There was never ANY thought that the capture of my existing amps was important to me, and it still isn't (I no longer own a tube amp, but certainly I have access to a butt ton of them from friends that gig).

Further, I absolutely love some amps (and gig them frequently) that I would never have heard. The free Morgan AC20 on rig exchange is pure pleasure on a host of tones (as an example).

The ability to setup my foot controller to do a host of modifications to a single rig is really great and having a single Ethercon cable out to my gigging position on stage is fantastic as well.

My back is SUPER happy I am not lugging that VHT 4x12 slant top and 2x12 fat bottom cabs around! A single VHT cab weighs about double a MESA cab and triple a Marshall!.

You clearly don't gig, or these things would make a great deal of sense to you. Accuracy? Seriously, who cares? It sounds great and is an excellent piece of gear to gig with.

It will be interesting to see how it goes when they release the new profiling algorithm.

While I don't care much about the capture accuracy, I have had issues with Aliasing on some rigs I have auditioned. I don't know how they get the problem, but certainly you wouldn't have it in the tube amp used to create the profile. I just chuck those and move on to ones that don't have the problem.

Off subject, sampling at a rate high enough that people can't hear aliasing is very easy to do with today's DSP's. 48Khz is more than enough to keep things clean with respect to aliasing far beyond the point of human hearing (and certainly any guitar players hearing).

Apt comparison.

My POV has always been that Kemper sounds great, and is simply the best gig rig on the market (for a number of reasons). I don't actually care if the rigs I use are exact duplicates of the amps that created them. Good lord knows that among the MANY sonic imperfections at a live performance, any miniscule difference would be grossly overshadowed. Shoot, the choice of mic selection and mixer eq alone effects the signal of a real tube amp 100 times more than any change a Kemper profile makes to the tone..... and that is before we start talking about room acoustics.

Things that ARE important to me:

1. Sounds good
2. Is easy to get sounding good
3. Light and easy to carry
4. Robust mechanically (needs to survive drunk girl's beer spill ... at least the FC does).
5. Reliable
6. Fast setup time on stage
7. Highly readable in a gig
8. Tone not changed when firmware is updated
9. Easy to setup main and monitor feeds

Aside:

I suspect that the new Kemper will capture more accurately that the existing MK1; however, Changing the sample rate back DOWN for MK1 should not cause ANY loss of fidelity IMO (assuming that the MK1 utilizes at least 48Khz sampling). Should this be proven true, then it might make sense for MK1 users to get new updated profiles ..... but I doubt it.

As I have stated, nothing the MK2 (or any other digital amp) can bring to the table will make me love the Morgan AC20 rig I have any less (or any of my other favorites I use to gig with).

Now, should something happen to my MK1, then certainly an MK2 would be in my future. There would be no need to go with an older technolog

That’s exactly why i sold my kemper to buy an fm3

I gotta be really honest. I bought the kemper to replace my tubes amps as I was getting hired by a band that required silent stage, stereo effects etc.

I struggled like never to get a cardboarded non dynamic kind of plexi crunch. I just coud not play the kemper it was nothing like an amp.

First rehearsal, the other guitarist in the band had a ax8….
It was like I was playing on a peavey bandit and he had a full Bradshaw rig…

And don’t talk about the dynamic, if kemper can’t replicate the dynamic of a plexi then it just can’t replicate dynamic, just faking it.