Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Enchilada Jones]

Even though I kinda agree with your post, you're way over-estimating the income a video like this brings to the creator. Youtube on average pays 2-4$ for 1000 views on a 15 minute video, considering he also has to pay taxes on that, he'd probably need to make around 1 million views to cover the cost of a Kemper... and that's not going to happen on a single video about a modeler.

I understand that’s why I did say “pennies”. It isn’t an easy hustle but again it’s about quantity. This is one video. The first one was an unboxing. Next apparently he made a profile. He knows the hardware isn’t going to be different without the yet to be delivered firmware so really, what is he delivering to those interested in the mkII? He is making quantity.
So, one video, the longer it gets activity/views the more it works for him. Meanwhile he makes another and another and they all are working for him.
Eventually he will make one that has mkII content. But how many views of how many videos with nothing but old news will come first? And he is just one of many. So many we will likely soon see a new content creator or two who are inspired by the spotlight.

And that incentive and the nature of the choices that are made to rise up in that sea of meh are why we are bombarded with so much empty content searching for the occasional video that has something we want.
And thus this old man is shouting at the cloud about it

 

[KingsXJJ]

I found this and while it is not related to Kemper, I do believe it is on topic to some of the discussion here. It may serve as an educational piece or a source of debate. In any case, here it is. No foul intended.

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

Let me be more blunt. @Orvillain @laxu @la szum @norminal or anyone. Please consider taking 5 minutes to read this white paper and give you thoughts about the discussion of combining white and black box modeling. Link again:

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

 

[norminal]

Let me be more blunt. @Orvillain @laxu @la szum @norminal or anyone. Please consider taking 5 minutes to read this white paper and give you thoughts about the discussion of combining white and black box modeling. Link again:

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

TL;DR?

 

[paisleywookiee]

This reminds me of when Fractal Audio released the FM3 Mark II and people were flipping out because it used the same modeling algorithm as the previous model.

Wait a minute… that never happened.

It was made clear from the start it was iterative though, and they actually have faster processors too, in the case of the FM’s. They also didn’t take 15 years to do a “Mark II”.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Let me be more blunt. @Orvillain @laxu @la szum @norminal or anyone. Please consider taking 5 minutes to read this white paper and give you thoughts about the discussion of combining white and black box modeling. Link again:

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

 

[KingsXJJ]

TL;DR?

Hotone discusses both the positives and negatives of white-box and black-box modeling and then describes combining them to overcome some of their individual weaknesses to deliver a hybrid solution that exhibits their combined strengths. Intro covers some theory on both.

 

[KingsXJJ]

It was made clear from the start it was iterative though, and they actually have faster processors too, in the case of the FM’s. They also didn’t take 15 years to do a “Mark II”.

But, to quote Dread Zepplin, The Code Remains the Same.

Until the juice runs down my leg.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

Never used NAM.

You should give it a go.
Lemme know if you have questions!

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

Let me be more blunt. @Orvillain @laxu @la szum @norminal or anyone. Please consider taking 5 minutes to read this white paper and give you thoughts about the discussion of combining white and black box modeling. Link again:

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

You didn't ask me directly, but, I will say that the hybrid approach is becoming quite common place.
Or in other words, I'm not sure they are doing anything new or unique, but it's definitely a respectable way to go about it.

 

[OneEng]

I found this and while it is not related to Kemper, I do believe it is on topic to some of the discussion here. It may serve as an educational piece or a source of debate. In any case, here it is. No foul intended.

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

It's an interesting read. See my comments below:

From what i understand, MKII Kempers are shipping with MKI firmware. They plan to launch a new fw version down the line

Yep. Pretty lame (and this from a Kemper owner). What is even more lame is that the appear to be using the exact same DSP hardware as MK1. Possibly even the same PCB (although I don't know this for a fact).

Hotone discusses both the positives and negatives of white-box and black-box modeling and then describes combining them to overcome some of their individual weaknesses to deliver a hybrid solution that exhibits their combined strengths. Intro covers some theory on both.

I think that all "capture" devices are doing this to varying degrees.

The "Capture" part, I suspect is much like the impulse system response performed in the frequency domain. Perhaps this is the black box portion?

Then the "model" part of it is all the knobs and adjustments after the capture.

Certainly there is a good case for the use of both IMO.

 

[texhex]

There are a few videos, but it seems like everyone was thinking it was going to be better than MK1. It isn't. The firmware is identical so far with the only exceptions being the added "fixed" efx. The profile algorithm isn't being improved until later this summer.

Still, from here:

Getting an accurate profile from Kemper is difficult and time consuming in comparison to QC and NAM (And even ToneX). They have needed an updated algorithm and capture process for some time IMO.

I can’t believe you still have to Refine using the same process for the Mk II. It’s totally random every time, even if you try to do the same thing it’s nearly impossible to Refine exactly the same way for every Profile unless you are using a DI track (which I’ve done). Also some amps come out better when you don’t Refine! Yeah, read that again.

I love the Rig Manager software and the editor, the fact that there is no cloud involved and the hardware based approach to creating the Profiles. Kemper has a great all around package, but their Profiling and Refining approach is O L D T E C H now.

I’ve tried a bunch of weird shit with my Kempers and unfortunately the Profiling is just not as good as the competition. This is a fact.

Maybe the new Algo is better, gotta wait and see, I hope it’s not lipstick on a pig.

I swear man, once I got super comfortable with the AXE III it was game over for most of this stuff anyway. FAS has the best all in one solution (hardware and software) for guitar amp noises by a long shot.

 

[riffy]

Hotone discusses both the positives and negatives of white-box and black-box modeling and then describes combining them to overcome some of their individual weaknesses to deliver a hybrid solution that exhibits their combined strengths. Intro covers some theory on both.

OK, I read that whole paper. I do understand what they’re doing and what they’re saying, which is a surprise to me.

Is a shame since they know all that they didn’t make a better capture quality product to put out when they were putting out new software revisions.

 

[Deadpan]

IMO, NAM is interesting but not ideal.

Sure, it can null nicely but there are other variables.

Suffer with your choices and perceived folding and what not.

:) !!

 

[KingsXJJ]

OK, I read that whole paper. I do understand what they’re doing and what they’re saying, which is a surprise to me.

Is a shame since they know all that they didn’t make a better capture quality product to put out when they were putting out new software revisions.

I think my Stage is on rev1 of the capture addition. I’m not concerned about that as I’ll just get a NAM player.

What I am interested in is how this approach affects the quality of the onboard modeling.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

OK, I read that whole paper. I do understand what they’re doing and what they’re saying, which is a surprise to me.

Is a shame since they know all that they didn’t make a better capture quality product to put out when they were putting out new software revisions.

You can't run much on limited power hardware, so they are doing their best with the capabilities of said hardware.
Or in other words - knowing the extent of 'what is possible' vs. 'compromising to save money on expensive processors' etc.

 

[GTR37]

Let me be more blunt. @Orvillain @laxu @la szum @norminal or anyone. Please consider taking 5 minutes to

Let me be more blunt. @Orvillain @laxu @la szum @norminal or anyone. Please consider taking 5 minutes to read this white paper and give you thoughts about the discussion of combining white and black box modeling. Link again:

https://res.hotoneaudio.com/prod/support/CDCM%20HD_White%20Paper_V01_200323.1584955064392.pdf

I got to page 1 where they talk about the Weiner subsystems and got lost

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

IMO, NAM is interesting but not ideal.

Sure, it can null nicely but there are other variables.

Suffer with your choices and perceived folding and what not.

:) !!

Pretty curious about what you mean.
Can you expand on all of this?

 

[KingsXJJ]

I got to page 1 where they talk about the Weiner subsystems and got lost

Skip it. It gets real simple afterward.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Pretty curious about what you mean.
Can you expand on all of this?

Buy his product basically.

 

[Deadpan]

Buy his product basically.

YeS! BuT No HaH!