Intonation ~ So I really DID need to loosen/slacken the string!

[Abe]

So I had always went with the notion that if the string fretted on the 12th fret was flat compared to the open string pluck and the 12th fret harmonic... then it would be okay to adjust the intonation screw without loosening/slackening the string because I'd be moving the saddle forward towards the nut/headstock making for less tension on the string rather than more. This time the one thing off on my guitar's intonation was a D string that was too sharp on the 12th fret. I figured how much could it really matter as it's just a small adjustment. Well I did not loosen/slacken the string, I just tried to adjust the screw to move the saddle back towards the butt of the guitar. Nope! I mean the saddle wouldn't move. Was literally on my way towards running out of screw! What was happening? The string tension was causing me to unscrew the screw without the D string's saddle moving. I DID need to loosen/slacken that string before moving the saddle back with the screw. As soon as I did loosen that string I could then visibly see that I could move that string's saddle via the screw.

So I just learned something. The string's tension was able to prevent me from moving the saddle with screw adjustments / the string's tension was holding the saddle in place no matter what I did with the screw. So now I realize the error of my ways and why I could not expect that D string's saddle to be adjusted at least in that direction without slackening the string. Lesson learned and now I'm more so pleased with the intonation.

Intonation is a big deal for anyone with good ears. Can really hold someone back if they're hearing inaccurate octaves being played up and down the fretboard. And even though completely perfect intonation on a fretted stringed instrument is impossible, it is nice to get it set the absolute best it can be for the string gauge you use.

This guitar was close to spot on to begin with, but the D string had the slight issue and it needed to be deviated just a bit from the stair step saddle positions. You can see in the picture that it's not exactly what it will typically look like specifically concerning the D string... but this is how I found it has to be for the D string to be as intonated as it can be on this guitar.

So even though some intonations have been successfully done without string slackening, it apparently can happen that the string tension can just hold the saddle in it's place without the screw being able to change it's position. I now know. And this is what the best near perfect intonation compromise looks like on this particular guitar with these particular strings.




PS: After I intonate with open string, 12th fret harmonic, and 12th fret fretted, I like to check octaves all over the fretboard so I can make the absolute best compromise for guitar playability.

 

[Eagle]

Try just using fretted notes ,3rd and 15th frets. It gives a far better result because the nut is eliminated from the equation. If you then have issues with your open strings the nut slots are likely to be the wrong depth ( strings too high over the first fret).

 

[Eagle]

Also good quality hardware is almost always adjustable at tension with no danger of damage. Exceptions are when you can’t get a tool past the string or when you need to manually adjust the position and bolt down the saddle ( Floyd or headless tuner).

 

[Abe]

For sure. I did go to those areas of the fretboard to find out what becomes the best compromise, knowing that with 22-24 frets a bit of a compromise always has to be made. Someone who exclusively keeps their playing below the 12th fret can simplify it for themself that way, while if one plays a lot all over the fretboard they'll have a decision to make. As long as the guitar is capable of being dialed in to not disturb my ears with bad octave inaccuracies I'm happy enough. I do play on all frets so I end up referencing all over the fretboard until I know I put it to the optimal intonation for all types of playing I will do on the guitar.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

In my experience, guitars won't hold tune very well if the intonation isn't right. In addition, they don't really sound that great, so they aren't very enjoyable to play either.

 

[icicle22]

I find I am particularly sensitive to intonation being even a little bit off. As such, I have a tendency to bend a lot of notes up above the 12th fret to have them perfectly in tune when soloing. Just a subtle bend to make it be perfectly in tune. I have been dabbling with a way to intonate the "b: string so that major 3rd's with the G string don't sound sharp up around the 5-12th fret yet the open b would still be good enough. This interval drives me crazy and is one of the "compromises" of the tuning design of guitars.

 

[Eagle]

I find I am particularly sensitive to intonation being even a little bit off. As such, I have a tendency to bend a lot of notes up above the 12th fret to have them perfectly in tune when soloing. Just a subtle bend to make it be perfectly in tune. I have been dabbling with a way to intonate the "b: string so that major 3rd's with the G string don't sound sharp up around the 5-12th fret yet the open b would still be good enough. This interval drives me crazy and is one of the "compromises" of the tuning design of guitars.

Try intonation between the 3rd and 15th frets. It helps temper the tuning to the fretted notes.

 

[norminal]

In my experience, guitars won't hold tune very well if the intonation isn't right.

 

[Abe]

Shifting it that little bit from the open and 12th can help. Use a strobe tuner for the intonation and try to be even with your pressure during the intonation and playing. I did need to slacken the string on this particular guitar to adjust the saddle position via the screw, though many including myself have successfully intonated without doing that. Being that the same type and gauge of strings should be under equal tension tuned up on separate guitars I guess it's a difference in bridge types.

 

[Eagle]

Shifting it that little bit from the open and 12th can help. Use a strobe tuner for the intonation and try to be even with your pressure during the intonation and playing. I did need to slacken the string on this particular guitar to adjust the saddle position via the screw, though many including myself have successfully intonated without doing that. Being that the same type and gauge of strings should be under equal tension tuned up on separate guitars I guess it's a difference in bridge types.

“Does help “ and it is because it references only fretted notes.