How do you gain stage?

[metropolis_4]

Whether it’s from pedals, amps, or a combo of both, what approach do you like to take?

What usually works best for me is having four base tones:

SPARKLY CLEAN
Pure clean that doesn’t break up when hit hard. For funk strumming, jazz comping, and schmoo

JANGLE
Has a little hair on it, clean when I pull back, pushes into jangly light overdrive when I strum big chords. This is home base used for everything I don’t need sparkly clean or power chord crunch.

CRUNCH
Has enough gain to stay overdriven when playing things that don’t have as much power (like root-5th comping). Used when I need an overdrive that stays overdriven when I’m not playing hard.

DISTORTION
A heavier, more saturated, thick sound that can get chunky and handle single note leads


What’s typically worked for me is to keep the amp clean, then I’ve got a pedal for JANGLE, a pedal before it to boost it into CRUNCH, and a pedal after it to stack for DISTORTION.

The last show I did I needed a fourth pedal that gave me CRUNCH from a single pedal because the boosted JANGLE didn’t clean up enough.

So I think I’m settling on a 4 pedal setup:

Boost -> Jangle OD -> Crunch OD -> Distortion

Where either Jangle OD or Crunch OD is the base tone and either Boost or Distortion (or both) stacks with it as needed.

 

[Chocol8]

Hmmm. I don't necessarily use the same terms, but in your language I would say most of the time, I set my amps to be between jangly and crunch with the guitar volume backed off a bit.

Clean comes from backing off more which can be done on guitar or with a pedal set to have low output. I do the second approach with envelope filters for example where I want to hit it with a full signal to reliably and consistently trigger, but then I dial back the signal to come out of the amp clean.

Crunch and distortion can then come from turning up the guitar or using pedals. More often then not, I prefer dirt pedals into an already dirty amp (at least a little dirt that turns into more when boosted).

In more recent years, as my tools to control volume, either digital, or tube amps into reactive attenuators, load boxes, or reampers has gotten better, I tend to not run any amps pristine clean anymore. Even a Super or Twin Reverb (or model or capture of them) mostly gets run with some dirt on them if the guitar volume was on 10. The only semi-regular exception would be if I am playing and planning to play clean only. Then I might use a simpler rig and just turn the amp down.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Almost blowtorch....Blowtorch

 

[James Freeman]

For me pedals that have the most amount of gain go first in the signal chain, preferably only true bypass pedals before the gain pedal/s.
The biggest offenders of noise floor are opamps and digital pedals with AD/DA stages, pedals with these never go first in my chain.

 

[metropolis_4]

Hmmm. I don't necessarily use the same terms, but in your language I would say most of the time, I set my amps to be between jangly and crunch with the guitar volume backed off a bit.

Clean comes from backing off more which can be done on guitar or with a pedal set to have low output. I do the second approach with envelope filters for example where I want to hit it with a full signal to reliably and consistently trigger, but then I dial back the signal to come out of the amp clean.

Crunch and distortion can then come from turning up the guitar or using pedals. More often then not, I prefer dirt pedals into an already dirty amp (at least a little dirt that turns into more when boosted).

In more recent years, as my tools to control volume, either digital, or tube amps into reactive attenuators, load boxes, or reampers has gotten better, I tend to not run any amps pristine clean anymore. Even a Super or Twin Reverb (or model or capture of them) mostly gets run with some dirt on them if the guitar volume was on 10. The only semi-regular exception would be if I am playing and planning to play clean only. Then I might use a simpler rig and just turn the amp down.

The amp thing is tricky for me because most of the time I’m like you and I want the amp at least pushed a little. But the problem I have is that I need to have a clean I can use for things like funk strumming and Freddie Green comping that stays clean while I’m hitting it hard with big full chords. Backing off the volume knob on a dirty amp doesn’t work for that. So usually the compromise for me is to keep the amp clean and use a pedal that stays on for the “pushed amp” sound.

Then that pushed tone is my base tone, but I can turn the pedal off when I need pristine clean.

I do try to set my amp to where the extra push from the drive pedals bumps it into a little overdrive when they’re on, and then I’ll often use a compressor to prevent my signal from pushing the amp into overdrive for the clean stuff.

 

[laxu]

JANGLE
Has a little hair on it, clean when I pull back, pushes into jangly light overdrive when I strum big chords. This is home base used for everything I don’t need sparkly clean or power chord crunch.

CRUNCH
Has enough gain to stay overdriven when playing things that don’t have as much power (like root-5th comping). Used when I need an overdrive that stays overdriven when I’m not playing hard.

DISTORTION
A heavier, more saturated, thick sound that can get chunky and handle single note leads

Pretty much these three. Jangle goes back to pristine clean by rolling down the guitar volume a bit or playing softer.

I get all of them just from my amp channels. Distortion tones become crunch by rolling down the guitar volume.

 

[Chocol8]

But the problem I have is that I need to have a clean I can use for things like funk strumming and Freddie Green comping that stays clean while I’m hitting it hard with big full chords. Backing off the volume knob on a dirty amp doesn’t work for that.

My approach definitely limits how dirty the amp can be, hence the need for dirt pedals, but have you tried something like an EQ pedal for your funk strumming parts? A lot of people use EQ as a boost, but try the opposite, with the output below unity gain so that when you step on the pedal you get your clean tone even when strumming chords. You can do it with any pedal with a clean(ish) output/level control, but an EQ will give you a little tone shaping as well if desired.

The other issue is keeping volume even which is much easier with digital, but I also have experimented with using guitar amp > Load > volume pedal > power amp > cab.

 

[metropolis_4]

My approach definitely limits how dirty the amp can be, hence the need for dirt pedals, but have you tried something like an EQ pedal for your funk strumming parts? A lot of people use EQ as a boost, but try the opposite, with the output below unity gain so that when you step on the pedal you get your clean tone even when strumming chords. You can do it with any pedal with a clean(ish) output/level control, but an EQ will give you a little tone shaping as well if desired.

The other issue is keeping volume even which is much easier with digital, but I also have experimented with using guitar amp > Load > volume pedal > power amp > cab.

It depends on the gig for me. I sometimes use a compressor for that purpose - to reduce gain going into the amp to clean it up. Which works well because it eliminates some of the peaks and keeps the guitar from pushing the amp too hard. Right now my clean signal chain uses both a compressor and an EQ

If I need clean for stuff like quiet sections or arpeggios or something like that I can do the dirty amp thing, it just doesn’t always work. Sometimes you need really clean. And I’m actually a big fan of clean tones and enjoy using them. I love the ‘80s heavily processed clean tones with a lot of attack on the notes and lots of compression

 

[newholland]

i set up the gainiest tone i can get away with that get thats just a bit too bright. then i back off about 25% on the volume knob and a little on tone.. thats my dirt tone. then i back off another few percent. thats my crunch tone. then a few more. thats clean.
and sometimes i add a boost for 'way too much' for feedback.

 

[DrewJD82]

I prefer to hang around Jangly and step up from there (this is for non-modern metal stuff, in which case I'm with JT- Blowtorch and More Torch)

On my Plexi50 I'm keeping the volume below 4, it's a step below AC/DC crunch where even if you beat the hell out of the strings, you won't quite get "Hell's Bells", I feel this is where the amp is the most dynamic and it's a bit like walking a fine line between maintaining those dynamics while the amp starts compressing a bit. If I cross that threshold, kicking on an OD will remove those dynamics but if I stay right below it there's still plenty on tap.

 

[AlbertA]

I was ready to bring charts but this is a different type of gain staging talk - carry on.

 

[Chocol8]

it just doesn’t always work. Sometimes you need really clean. And I’m actually a big fan of clean tones and enjoy using them.

What more specifically is not working for you? I am often playing guitars with solid output levels and a wide usable range on the volume knob (often active or buffered before the volume pot so little or no tone loss as I roll back volume). Also, I play a lot of Fender BF style amps which have a wide range of clean volume levels so I am not trying to hit a narrow sweet spot, just back off until clean enough. So yes, what is working for me may not work for your situation.

 

[DrewJD82]

Made a quick clip stepping up in gain-



At first it's just the amp, at 0:46 I turn the Tchula on and at 1:13 kick on the SD-1.

I've got the Hot Mod engaged on the amp so it's a little dirtier than I'd normally have it with the same settings.

 

[metropolis_4]

What more specifically is not working for you? I am often playing guitars with solid output levels and a wide usable range on the volume knob (often active or buffered before the volume pot so little or no tone loss as I roll back volume). Also, I play a lot of Fender BF style amps which have a wide range of clean volume levels so I am not trying to hit a narrow sweet spot, just back off until clean enough. So yes, what is working for me may not work for your situation.

It all depends on the gig. Some gigs it works better for me to keep the amp clean and use a pedal for that pushed sound. Other gigs it works better to drive the amp harder

 

[László]

I like to get most of my gain from the amp. I use overdrives as 'color generators' set to do what I need them to do for a given session to get sounds I don't have in my amps, or just to add a little more texture. I have boosts; one in front of the overdrives incase I want a more pushed pedal sound. The other comes after them, but I bought it mostly for its parametric midrange boost in case I need that, which isn't often.

With the Mark VII being able to get ten zillion tones (I've only had it a week, there may be more!), I haven't switched on a dirt or boost pedal, so I'd feel guilty about having them at all if I didn't have other amps that now I probably don't need either.

 

[EOengineer]

I’m never squeaky clean. Amp is always some version of edge of breakup. Then higher gain via a Klon. Beyond that point I’m not looking for more gain, I’m looking for texture. This is usually where I’ll add a fuzz pedal or two so I can add Velcro or other textural color to the tones.

I adhere to similar guidelines as some others here where I try to keep any buffering or digital conversion away from the front of these fx.