High gain amps that sound *huge*?

[MatrixClaw]

So, recently, I finally got all my amps hooked up into my 4x4 amp/cab switcher and spent some time A/Bing through all of them. Interestingly, I found that, the amp I had been playing the most before (my Bogner Twin Jet) just didn't have nearly the "oomph" as my Engl Savage or Armored Sabot, the same with my 101b. I still love both of these amps, but I really can't get over how much more weight the Engl and Armored had vs the Bogners.

Over the years, I've owned a lot of amps. The only amps I really remember having the saturation and chunkiness of these two amps were the Rev F Racktifier and Rev Blue Uberschall. Both needed a boost to get into that territory though, which I didn't love. The two I own now don't need one at all...

What amps might be worth looking into if I were to swap the Twin Jet out for something else? Is the Uber Ultra that much more chunky than the TJ? Should I just look into another Engl - Fireball or an SE? Maybe I should try a Fryette again?

I know some would disagree, but I find the Savage to be more in the British realm the way its mids are voiced, at least how I like it. It sounds very similar to the Sabot, which is a Jose modded Plexi. I think my ears are just shifting toward this sound lately, but I'd like to find something a bit more American voiced to balance them out.

Thoughts??

 

[GTR37]

Are you talking about weight or chunk in the lows or amps that cut through more

Weight and Chunk I would Say Deizel, Some Rivera like the K7, Rectos, Driftwood

For more cut the modded Marshall thing that you have discovered you like

 

[sleewell]

i think almost every amp that most people on forums buy are described as that in NAD threads hahahahaha

 

[MatrixClaw]

Are you talking about weight or chunk in the lows or amps that cut through more

Weight and Chunk I would Say Deizel, Some Rivera like the K7, Rectos, Driftwood

For more cut the modded Marshall thing that you have discovered you like

I think it's less about the low end. All 4 of my amps have plenty of low end, though yes, the Engl and Armored are probably bigger sounding here as well... It's more about the low-mid content than anything. That said, the Engl and Armored also have a lot of sizzle in the top end and high mids, which I think is what really sets them apart. Instead of just feeling super heavy on the low/low mids like a Recto, they hit you like a 10 ton brick with a big wall of sound. Where I've found most low mid focused amps to fall short in clarity and real cut in a mix (they sit well into a mix, but don't stand out), the Savage and Armored are so mid-forward, while not just being ONLY mids, like what I associate the more classic British sound with.

I think Diezel definitely has a similar wall of sound, but I find their mid voicing to be a bit too hollow. The Einstein I recently had was probably the closest I've gotten with their amps, but it still seems too low mid focused and the low end was too boomy for me.

Rivera might be interesting! I had a K-Tre years ago that I loved. I remember it being kind of a cross between British and American voicings. The KR7 might work really well!

i think almost every amp that most people on forums buy are described as that in NAD threads hahahahaha

LOL for sure. I keep hearing people say the EVH Stealth amps are the biggest sounding amps they've ever heard and I really just think they maybe haven't tried that many amps

 

[Shask]

LOL for sure. I keep hearing people say the EVH Stealth amps are the biggest sounding amps they've ever heard and I really just think they maybe haven't tried that many amps

I think all the 5150 style amps have a big sound to them because of the resonance control. However, they don't have the immediate punch, jump out of the speaker thing like some amps. I get more of that with my Synergy and KT88 poweramp, with something like the Killer Kali.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I think all the 5150 style amps have a big sound to them because of the resonance control. However, they don't have the immediate punch, jump out of the speaker thing like some amps. I get more of that with my Synergy and KT88 poweramp, with something like the Killer Kali.

Yeah, the Killer Kali looks really cool. Would like to try that one, but I got rid of my Synergy rig a while ago Still, I have a feeling it'd be very similar to the Sabot. Maybe the real answer here is just keep the Sabot and Savage and be happy not needing anything else LOL.

 

[Genghis]

I was gonna say I really dig the way my Killer Kali sounds with my band. The only reason I went to using my JP2C live is because stages in this little town are small and the Kali would do the muffin top thing sitting on the stacked 1x12s.

 

[Shask]

Yeah, the Killer Kali looks really cool. Would like to try that one, but I got rid of my Synergy rig a while ago Still, I have a feeling it'd be very similar to the Sabot. Maybe the real answer here is just keep the Sabot and Savage and be happy not needing anything else LOL.

I was thinking something with a 2/90/2 like I mentioned on the other board, because I think they they would have those immediate lows that feel like they jump out of the speaker when you attack the strings. To me, there are 2 "huges". One is like a Recto, where is is just big and wall-like, and the other is the punchy jump out of the speaker type, which is what I think Fryettes do.

Maybe you just need an EQ pedal so you can tweak those 2 amps to be slightly different, while still keeping the parts you like.

 

[DISTORT6]

My Sig:X is a corpulent bastard.

 

[GreatGreen]

The biggest sounding amps I’ve heard are Wizards, especially with KT88 power sections.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I was thinking something with a 2/90/2 like I mentioned on the other board, because I think they they would have those immediate lows that feel like they jump out of the speaker when you attack the strings. To me, there are 2 "huges". One is like a Recto, where is is just big and wall-like, and the other is the punchy jump out of the speaker type, which is what I think Fryettes do.

Maybe you just need an EQ pedal so you can tweak those 2 amps to be slightly different, while still keeping the parts you like.

I definitely think Fryettes do the sound I'm looking for. The problem is that their mids are weird, at least on the KT88 amps. I can't ever get over that hollowness. I've always though the CLX would be the one I liked the most, but they are even harder to come by than the UL now days. There's one listed locally right now for a good price with a 2x12, but by the time I sell any of my stuff to buy it, I'm sure it'll be long gone.

FWIW, I do use an EQ. My Ibanez PTEQ is one of my favorites tone shapers on my board, but the problem is that, EQs tend to do well at cutting, but adding frequencies in that aren't there is a different story.

My Sig:X is a corpulent bastard.

I had one a few years ago. It was perfect for me on paper - I LOVED the Plexi channel on that thing and the mid gain tones were wonderful... but I just couldn't get enough gain out of that thing to satisfy me. The lead channel was a precarious balance of the two gain knobs - once you went over a certain threshold it became really muddy. I also didn't find that amp to be dry whatsoever, which is fine with me, but is definitely the way it's described online. I thought for sure maybe something was wrong with the amp and I ended up retubing the whole thing, but no dice. It sounded great with a boost, but I hate amps that need a boost to get where I want it. Would definitely like to revisit it again some day because my experience seems to be unique among people I know who have played them

The biggest sounding amps I’ve heard are Wizards, especially with KT88 power sections.

Interesting. Every recording of a Wizard I've ever heard sounded very thin with a lot of high end and a lack of low end. I've always been curious about them and this was definitely a consideration as I could probably sell both of my Bogners and buy a Hell Razer, but the lack of good recordings online for such expensive amps is wild to me.

 

[GreatGreen]

I definitely think Fryettes do the sound I'm looking for. The problem is that their mids are weird, at least on the KT88 amps. I can't ever get over that hollowness. I've always though the CLX would be the one I liked the most, but they are even harder to come by than the UL now days. There's one listed locally right now for a good price with a 2x12, but by the time I sell any of my stuff to buy it, I'm sure it'll be long gone.

FWIW, I do use an EQ. My Ibanez PTEQ is one of my favorites tone shapers on my board, but the problem is that, EQs tend to do well at cutting, but adding frequencies in that aren't there is a different story.

I had one a few years ago. It was perfect for me on paper - I LOVED the Plexi channel on that thing and the mid gain tones were wonderful... but I just couldn't get enough gain out of that thing to satisfy me. The lead channel was a precarious balance of the two gain knobs - once you went over a certain threshold it became really muddy. I also didn't find that amp to be dry whatsoever, which is fine with me, but is definitely the way it's described online. I thought for sure maybe something was wrong with the amp and I ended up retubing the whole thing, but no dice. It sounded great with a boost, but I hate amps that need a boost to get where I want it. Would definitely like to revisit it again some day because my experience seems to be unique among people I know who have played them

Interesting. Every recording of a Wizard I've ever heard sounded very thin with a lot of high end and a lack of low end. I've always been curious about them and this was definitely a consideration as I could probably sell both of my Bogners and buy a Hell Razer, but the lack of good recordings online for such expensive amps is wild to me.

I’ve made a few recordings of Wizards, I’ll post some of them. Maybe they can help. Whether they’re good or not is up to the listener but I had fun making them. The MCII is boosted with an EQ (slight level and treble boost) and the HR is straight in.

MCII - 100w EL34






Hell Razor KT88

 

[MatrixClaw]

I’ve made a few recordings of Wizards, I’ll post some of them. Maybe they can help. Whether they’re good or not is up to the listener but I had fun making them. The MCII is boosted with an EQ (slight level and treble boost) and the HR is straight in.

MCII - 100w EL34




Hell Razor KT88

Ahhh, I think I've heard that first one before, maybe on RT, or was it here?? This is actually the first and only recording I've ever heard of a Wizard that made me think, "That sounds awesome."

What are your thoughts on the MCII vs Hell Razor? The HR definitely sounds "bigger" in these clips, but the clarity and tightness on the MCII in that first clip is probably more up my alley.

 

[GreatGreen]

Ahhh, I think I've heard that first one before, maybe on RT, or was it here?? This is actually the first and only recording I've ever heard of a Wizard that made me think, "That sounds awesome."

What are your thoughts on the MCII vs Hell Razor? The HR definitely sounds "bigger" in these clips, but the clarity and tightness on the MCII in that first clip is probably more up my alley.

Yep, I’ve posted those clips on Rig Talk before, thanks!

It’s hard to draw a solid line between the preamps vs poweramps and how responsible each one is for the differences between the amps. As they are, I love them both though. I think of the HR as a more modernized MCII on steroids. But that doesn’t mean the HR is better at everything though. The HR sounds wider and meaner, has more gain, a little more sub bass thump and Presency zing. It’s a bit sharper on top and more crushing.

But the MCII, while higher bandwidth than most amps, feels more focused than the HR. The HR feels like the most modern high gain amp I’ve ever played, while the MCII feels more like somebody took a classic vintage amp and modded it into a flame thrower that still has some vintage DNA in there. Both amps have the same Wizard signature thing going on with their clarity and punch.

The HR is the ultimate amp for crystal clarity though, even into absurd amounts of gain. That HR clip above is truly over the top gain, it also sounds growly and really authoritative with the gain backed down too, I need to do a demo of that kind of sound. Anyway, the MCII has less gain on tap and a bit more chew, and is quite dynamic as well. Picture almost plexi levels of your volume knob and pick attack being able to control the amount of distortion, but where a Plexi's clean to heavy handed picking turns the amp from clean to brownish, on the MCII it's every bit as dynamic, but goes from clean to modern tight high gain. It’s wild. It has an immediacy and responsiveness I haven't heard any other modern amp come close to.