Here is why you may want a pair of subs in your studio
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MirrorProfiles
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that should rattle a few walls.
Have you measured the room before and after? Does the sub have adjustable crossovers/phase? I’d measure your response at listening position and try moving it around and adjusting settings to find what works best
Jambi
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I haven’t received it yet. It has adjustable crossover and 180 phase. I’m pairing it with 8 inch monitors, but I don’t know if I’ll have much of an option for placement other than under my desk.
MirrorProfiles
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do you have a measurement mic? It depends what your goals are but I wouldn’t really feel comfortable setting up a sub without one.
You should be OK by experimenting with crossover and polarity, a lot of subs offer more options between 0 and 360° for phase, or even full on speaker calibration and time adjustment etc
Jambi
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Nothing super critical at the moment. I’m not opposed to getting one though. My main goal is to lift some of the heavy lifting off of the monitors and not have to turn up as loud to get the woofers to start woofing. The 12 inch sub is recommended by the manufacturer, but part of me wonders if it’s gonna be massive and untamable. I could definitively use more low end in most scenarios; I’m hoping that it provides more punch than flub at 12”.
MirrorProfiles
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by all accounts the Behringer measurement mic (£35 or so) will work just fine. Or you could grab Sonarworks and use that for another level of calibration once you have things set up as good as you can get.
Can do a lot with the measurement mic and room EQ wizard (it’s free) just to get things positioned as good as you can get - if it’s done wrong you can make the response at your listening position even worse.
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You are doing what I did a couple of years ago and I am very happy with the results. Just wanted to
open up some more headroom in my monitors. Running 6" Monitors with an 8" Sub. Very content.
pipelineaudio
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Ethan Winers video where he puts the balloons at peaks and nulls in a room is mind blowing. Somewhere around 60 hz is up 20dB about 5 inches from where 60hz is down 30 something dB.
Placement helps but the peaks and dips are real.
Luckily the big box stores have roxul safe n sound for like 60 bucks a bag.
Placement helps but the peaks and dips are real.
Luckily the big box stores have roxul safe n sound for like 60 bucks a bag.
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This past weekend I went to GC and took a look at the monitor section, it was actually set up with all the popular monitors in the small-med-large ranges! I‘m going to spare the interaction that ensued with the salesperson, but I was able to compare the HS5’s (currently own) with the HS7’s and HS8’s, then the KRK and Adam Audio equivalents.
I’m without a doubt getting the HS8’s. In fact, I’m going to try to turn my DRRI into a pair of used ones as GC has a couple used pairs local to me. Holy shit that was an eye opener. The exact points of issue I’m not catching on the HS5’s/shitty sub are present in the HS8’s and they don’t need to be loud to hear them at all.
I think being able to reference between the HS5’s and HS8’s is my best bet until I make the jump the 3-way monitors, which I’m not going to invest in until I have a legit room I can put them in.
I’m without a doubt getting the HS8’s. In fact, I’m going to try to turn my DRRI into a pair of used ones as GC has a couple used pairs local to me. Holy shit that was an eye opener. The exact points of issue I’m not catching on the HS5’s/shitty sub are present in the HS8’s and they don’t need to be loud to hear them at all.
I think being able to reference between the HS5’s and HS8’s is my best bet until I make the jump the 3-way monitors, which I’m not going to invest in until I have a legit room I can put them in.
MirrorProfiles
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slight update.
read a little about Neumann's room calibration, and people using it with non-Neumann monitors.
I happen to be using a KH750 with my ATC SCM25A's. Because I'm using 3 sets of monitors, and the size of the ATC's, its quite hard to position them optimally in my room without compromising something else. I struck a pretty good balance between the 3, but the ATC's probably suffer more than the other 2.
The ATC's were also fussier to pair with a sub, quite often I just preferred them without a sub.
ENTER THE KH750.
Managed to get that positioned and dialled in to smooth the low end response out in my room pretty well, with only one 6dB or so dip. Not ideal, but all things considered, good enough to work with.
At the weekend I stumbled on a new-in-box MA-1 measurement mic, figured I'd take a punt on it and sell it on if it didnt work well. What's nice is the calibration is handled within the sub and it can correct for non-DSP speakers. What also seperates it from Sonarworks etc is that it not only corrects the frequency response, it adjusts for phase and timing (kind of like a poor man's Trinnov). Ideally you'd use Neumann monitors as they've optimised their correction for their own crossovers and drivers, and using other speakers is going a bit rogue. Ultimately, the mic should be measuring the response in the listening position regardless. What's also cool is the software determines what can be corrected with EQ, and what nulls will just cancel out more with a bigger dip.
With the Neumann correction, my biggest dips have reduced to under 3dB across the entire spectrum. The phase is so unbelievably tight that it feels like the monitors have disappeared from my room and there is just a beatifully precise sweet spot where you can hear EVERYTHING with so much precision.
The low end is noticebly more connected than I'd ever be able to dial it in. The DSP extends the range of settings for the crossover and filters and can optimise for the room. That, combined with time algining means it just feels really tight and connected to the monitors which was quite hard to do without software helping.
What's also kind of weird to me, is that its made the ATC's sound more like how I wanted them to. I usually work more on Amphions which I just find incredibly quick to make descisions on. The ATC's are killer for recording on, and are really impressive sounding but I'd usually have to adjust some mix choices when I check on other speakers (which doesn't happen when I mix mostly on the Amphions).
I really do think a sub AND DSP is an unbeatable combination.
read a little about Neumann's room calibration, and people using it with non-Neumann monitors.
I happen to be using a KH750 with my ATC SCM25A's. Because I'm using 3 sets of monitors, and the size of the ATC's, its quite hard to position them optimally in my room without compromising something else. I struck a pretty good balance between the 3, but the ATC's probably suffer more than the other 2.
The ATC's were also fussier to pair with a sub, quite often I just preferred them without a sub.
ENTER THE KH750.
Managed to get that positioned and dialled in to smooth the low end response out in my room pretty well, with only one 6dB or so dip. Not ideal, but all things considered, good enough to work with.
At the weekend I stumbled on a new-in-box MA-1 measurement mic, figured I'd take a punt on it and sell it on if it didnt work well. What's nice is the calibration is handled within the sub and it can correct for non-DSP speakers. What also seperates it from Sonarworks etc is that it not only corrects the frequency response, it adjusts for phase and timing (kind of like a poor man's Trinnov). Ideally you'd use Neumann monitors as they've optimised their correction for their own crossovers and drivers, and using other speakers is going a bit rogue. Ultimately, the mic should be measuring the response in the listening position regardless. What's also cool is the software determines what can be corrected with EQ, and what nulls will just cancel out more with a bigger dip.
With the Neumann correction, my biggest dips have reduced to under 3dB across the entire spectrum. The phase is so unbelievably tight that it feels like the monitors have disappeared from my room and there is just a beatifully precise sweet spot where you can hear EVERYTHING with so much precision.
The low end is noticebly more connected than I'd ever be able to dial it in. The DSP extends the range of settings for the crossover and filters and can optimise for the room. That, combined with time algining means it just feels really tight and connected to the monitors which was quite hard to do without software helping.
What's also kind of weird to me, is that its made the ATC's sound more like how I wanted them to. I usually work more on Amphions which I just find incredibly quick to make descisions on. The ATC's are killer for recording on, and are really impressive sounding but I'd usually have to adjust some mix choices when I check on other speakers (which doesn't happen when I mix mostly on the Amphions).
I really do think a sub AND DSP is an unbeatable combination.
yeky83
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What's the freq range of the MA 1 correction, does it stop when it gets to around >400Hz?
Setup description sounds like it should work with any omni measurement microphone... Do you need to use their microphone, or can you use the software without using/purchasing their microphone?
MirrorProfiles
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MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment
Neumann’s Automatic Monitor Alignment MA 1 ensures the best possible sound quality in any room – from home studios to professional control rooms. Using the individually calibrated measurement microphone your acoustic environment is analyzed in a guided process.
The correction is applied from basically 20hz-20kHz, it ignores the very top of the frequency response. You can adjust the EQ curve to taste afterwards but I don't think you can tell it to ignore frequency ranges. The curve it aligns to isn't totally flat, its somewhat like the Dolby curve where there is a very slight lift in the low end. I actually find this to sound more like how good monitoring should, and music sounds and feels much nicer with this kind of response.
I guess they are measuring each mic themselves so when you do a measurement its taking its own tolerances into account. When you go through the calibration process, it asks for the mic's serial number rather than a generic file format (like you can with Sonarworks). You can download the software for free and have a general nose around, but you won't get too far unless it detects a Neumann DSP speaker, and to get further you'd need a mic's serial number.
As well as the mic, you'd also need at least their sub or speakers with DSP built in as all the correction is handled in the speaker itself. Really it should be used in a full Neumann rig, as they say they are adjusting phase for the crossover's of their own speaker design. My monitors have their own crossovers in different areas, although they are very well designed (as I'd hope the Neumann ones are without any DSP). IMO the results are fantastic, and the trade off feels well worth it given the difference in cost with a Trinnov system (which as far as I'm aware is the only other option for aligning subs and adjusting for phase).
