Fractal Talk

[saarangnarayan]

The models (IIC+ and IV) sound slightly mushier/fuzzier and less tight

I agree with this assessment. For the latest firmware, I've had to change my GEQ slightly as well as turn the bass down to 0.25 from 1.75 on my MkIV Lead Mid block to compensate for the changes.

 

[saarangnarayan]

The last two sound very close.

They do, but there is a definite difference in the low end and its attack in the clips. It's like the Ares Friedman HBE vs. Cygnus Friedman HBE all over again. (EDIT: except that I'm not wedded to the Mark amps in the way I was the HBE C45 back then)

 

[2112]

@2112 Thank you very much for posting this.
Not sure which one is first (not specified) but the first one is bloated and way less crunchy than the second, like two different amps.

EDIT:
I LOVE the gaslighting from Fractal fans but sorry not sorry, I trust my ears first, and it sounds like Fractal's Mark models are in need of a complete remodeling.
While Fractal is at it, please bring us a PEQ with authentic Linear sliders, that's part of the experience.

I want to love Mark models (by any company) but there's always something fucked up with them, I guess it's the elusive Mark magic that can't be bottled.

Clips are;
Amp
Fractal
Amp
Fractal

 

[James Freeman]

Clips are;
Amp
Fractal
Amp
Fractal

The opposite of what I though but still very different to my ear.
The real Mark IV is fatter than the Model which is more barky, neither are particularly tight.

 

[James Freeman]

I just can't dial in the classic Metallica albums tone with the IIC+/IV models, they're not tight enough and don't have the same gain structure.

Hetfield's IIC+ is extremely tight and gainy, how the fuck did the get that tightness from a IIC+ without boosting it.
THE tone starts at around 2:00,

 

[saarangnarayan]

just can't dial in the classic Metallic albums tone with the IIC+/IV models

Have you tried the IIC++?

 

[James Freeman]

Have you tried the IIC++?

I did, it's a little tighter but supposedly based on a much older (less accurate) version of the IIC+ aside from the pot tapers.

Mesa/Boogie is a shit show outside the US, otherwise I would have bought a IIC+ reissue by now.

 

[Stone]

On the albums MoP and Garage they used Mesa MKIIc+ as preamps and the power amp sections from Marshall usually a JCM 800 or a JMP (slaving)
which i dont think can do that on the Fractal

 

[FractalAudio]

The opposite of what I though but still very different to my ear.

 

[James Freeman]

I made a fool of myself, I'm not a stranger to that either, I know you're all good people and remember all the other times I was useful.
Still, the model doesn't sound like Leons amp and neither sound tight enough for that Metallica chug.

 

[OrganicZed]

I was going to reply to this with the mandatory "Marks are hard to dial in", "they're sensitive to guitars & playing style" and "what sort of maniac runs gain and overdrive that high with the fat switch on!" but I don't have a life so I did a quick A/B with my Mark IV Rev B and the equivalent model in the Axe-Fx FW 28.05. Disabled the Axe power amp and ran it into the fx return of the Mark to take out the GEQ/power amp//presence/load variables so it's really just comparing the preamps. PRS Custom 24 with a JB in the bridge.

First 2 clips are the preamp settings @James Freeman posted. Next two have the gain at 6, fat off & bright on which is my go to tight/dry recipe.

The first one in both sets of clips had more bass and wasn't as aggressive sounding. I'm guessing that the first one was the Axe-FX.

Edit: As per usual, my guess was entirely wrong.

 

[laxu]

I made a fool of myself, I'm not a stranger to that either, I know you're all good people and remember all the other times I was useful.
Still, the model doesn't sound like Leons amp and neither sound tight enough for that Metallica chug.

Isn't it always just a case of "Fractal reference amps sounds different from your amp"? Same settings are never a good way to get them to sound equal anyway. I thought the Fractal preamp models sounded better in Leon's clip.

B/M/T 0/0/10 settings on the tone-stack does not result in the minimum amount of bass possible either. Treble on 10 makes the Bass and Mid knobs less effective.

This is from https://tonestack.yuriturov.com using the Fender Treble-Middle-Bass tonestack which seems to be pretty much the same as the Mark IIC+ tone stack.

Blue is B/M/T = 0/0/10
Red is B/M/T = 0/0/5

Blue is B/M/T = 0.1 / 0.1 / 10
Red is B/M/T = 0.1 / 0.1 / 5

 

[OrganicZed]

I made a fool of myself, I'm not a stranger to that either, I know you're all good people and remember all the other times I was useful.
Still, the model doesn't sound like Leons amp and neither sound tight enough for that Metallica chug.

Have you checked out Plague Scythe Studio's video on Metallica tones? That might be a helpful guide.

 

[FractalAudio]

Preamp (fx send) out of our reference Mark IV vs. Axe-Fx III amp model w/ power amp off using Jame's settings:

Green and pink traces are amp. Green/blue are w/ 0dB input. Pink/orange are with -60dB input.

"Trusting your ears" is all well and good but comparing things to Youtube clips and a heavily produced album is a fool's errand.

 

[James Freeman]

Preamp (fx send) out of our reference Mark IV vs. Axe-Fx III amp model w/ power amp off using Jame's settings:

View attachment 44908

Green and pink traces are amp. Green/blue are w/ 0dB input. Pink/orange are with -60dB input.

"Trusting your ears" is all well and good but comparing things to Youtube clips and a heavily produced album is a fool's errand.

Thank you for the effort Cliff, I appreciate that very much.
Does your real amp actually sounds like the model when playing?
If so why Leon's IV preamp sounds very different than the model with the same 10,0,0 settings, almost like a different amp.

 

[FractalAudio]

Thank you for the effort Cliff, I appreciate that very much.
Does your real amp actually sounds like the model when playing?
If so why Leon's IV preamp sounds very different than the model with the same 10,0,0 settings, almost like a different amp.

Pots are very sensitive when you get near 10. So with Gain and Lead Drive at 9 tiny movements in the pots will cause drastic changes.

Spend some time studying the behavior of log pots and you'll understand.

 

[saarangnarayan]

almost like a different amp

I don't think it sounds like an entirely different amp tbh. The difference was in the low and (and maybe low mids as a result?) to me. The mids and highs sounded nearly identical. It was like two settings on the same amp.

 

[Orvillain]

FWIW, I really like the Mark models on the Axe3. They've never sounded "wrong" to me in the way that the JVM models did. They just sound like a different flavour. The Mark V compares very favourably to my real Mark V - yes, there are sonic differences, but again, nothing that sounded "wrong".

 

[Orvillain]

I was going to reply to this with the mandatory "Marks are hard to dial in", "they're sensitive to guitars & playing style" and "what sort of maniac runs gain and overdrive that high with the fat switch on!" but I don't have a life so I did a quick A/B with my Mark IV Rev B and the equivalent model in the Axe-Fx FW 28.05. Disabled the Axe power amp and ran it into the fx return of the Mark to take out the GEQ/power amp//presence/load variables so it's really just comparing the preamps. PRS Custom 24 with a JB in the bridge.

First 2 clips are the preamp settings @James Freeman posted. Next two have the gain at 6, fat off & bright on which is my go to tight/dry recipe.

Everything here sounds killer IMO!

 

[metropolis_4]

I actually think the Fractal Mark IV sounds better than my real Mark IV did