Fractal Audio Systems AM4 - Amp Modeler

[yek]

I get it. However, it should also have been clear that a statement such as ‘[...] it has half the power of a standard Axe-Fx III’ would cause confusion among us lowly laymen.

It’s a challenge for MI manufacturers answering questions online because every message gets dissected and interpreted, to the last syllable.

BTW, if I’m not mistaken the DSP (TI) in the AM4 is single core, while the one in the III (TI) is dual core, which makes all the difference in total load.

 

[luckymethod]

It’s a great device. At it’s price point I see it as a more compelling option than Hx Stomp for those who want deeper parameter controls and better sounding/feeling amps.

It feels like a lot for the money and without much trade off. 4 blocks is my sweet spot though.

IMHO the HX Stomp is significantly more versatile (while sounding worse). I REALLY would like to replace my stomp with this but I can't, no pitch effects, larger footprint that would force me to add a pitch pedal just to get parity with my current setup on a larger pedalboard. It's too bad really.

 

[Sascha Franck]

IMHO the HX Stomp is significantly more versatile (while sounding worse).

Absolutely. Especially in terms of switching flexibility, it's most excellent.
Unfortunately, it's somewhat underpowered for my needs, so I can't use it for many gigs but just a few with very little demands regarding flexibility (I'm not gonna use patch switching for a number of reasons).

 

[GTR37]

IMHO the HX Stomp is significantly more versatile (while sounding worse). I REALLY would like to replace my stomp with this but I can't, no pitch effects, larger footprint that would force me to add a pitch pedal just to get parity with my current setup on a larger pedalboard. It's too bad really.

I know it sounds strange but the AM4 is equally if not more powerful than a stomp if we talk Per preset
Try adding a gate , an amp a dual cab , 4 delays , 4 drives
4 reverbs there is no way you could do that
Footswitching at the moment might be more versatile yes, but even that is subject to change in the future who knows , It’s FAS I am sure there will be further development

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

You don't have a device capable of running as many blocks as an FM9 sitting at your feet with an AM4. It can't even run as many blocks as an FM3. It's very hard to tell a layman how "powerful" a SOC chip (which is what you have in an AM4) is. It's not multiples, especially when comparing between a SOC-based design and something that uses discrete DSPs and co-processing chips. It's not linear.

"I can't make a chart" is the important part of that quote -- it's not that straightforward.

Honestly, he should have just left it at "I can't make a chart; it's a bit more powerful than the VP4".

It's going to be an eternal thing for confusion and fodder.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I echo that but only if you compare US prices.

I'd say that even in EU/UK the price premium, new, over the Stomp is justified. It gets you into a price point of "I know its that much better, but do I want to spend that much money" for sure.

And the bigger stick in the mud is that...I imagine that in EU/UK a used Stomp is probably a dime-a-dozen at a price where the Fractal Premium is no longer commensurate with the improved performance.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I know it sounds strange but the AM4 is equally if not more powerful than a stomp if we talk Per preset
Try adding a gate , an amp a dual cab , 4 delays , 4 drives
4 reverbs there is no way you could do that
Footswitching at the moment might be more versatile yes, but even that is subject to change in the future who knows , It’s FAS I am sure there will be further development

I agree, but disagree that considering channels to be anything close to equivalent of being able to include 4 delays/4 drives/4 reverbs in a single preset is not reeeeeeally the right way to think about it. One fixed spot and likely some really wonky spillover if I remember correctly just makes it fundamentally a different mindset.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Footswitching at the moment might be more versatile yes, but even that is subject to change in the future who knows

Exactly, "who knows". I for one will never buy any product based on possible future updates. For the same reason, I wouldn't buy a Helix Stadium at this point in time.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I imagine that in EU/UK a used Stomp is probably a dime-a-dozen at a price where the Fractal Premium is no longer commensurate with the improved performance.

Right now, you should easily be able to grab a 2nd hand Stomp for around €400.

Personally, for my current small board I went for a 2nd hand GT-1000 Core, a 2nd hand Tonex One, a Tonex One controller, a Hotone Ampero Control, Hotone Ampero Press, Palmer DI and HB PSU (with straight IEC input). Add some 50 bucks for the cables and all of that kicks in at around €900, same price as the AM4.
That setup is infinitely more flexible than the AM4 and can do everything I mentioned above (and then some).

Now, before anyone starts telling me I should rather compare apples to apples: I am perfectly aware of the differences between that setup and an all-in-one unit. I am as well aware of FAS modeling and FX quality. And I possibly went as deep into the horrorshow named Boss GT editing as it gets. So there.
And yet: That setup is sufficiently small, some Tonex captures sound incredible, Boss FX are very serviceable and once you're past the initial programming and into some actual live playing, that setup really shows its qualities.

Anyhow, I wouldn't be in this thread asking lots of questions if I wasn't still interested in an AM4.
But while I would be willing to get away with some shortcomings, compared to my equally priced current setup, just FAS sound quality and the somewhat smaller form factor (I'd need an EXP pedal and a wallwart as the minimum in addition, though) simply isn't enough of a compelling reason if so many things would require (partially awkward) workarounds.

I'll keep an eye on its future development, though. But for now, being a live player in the very first place, the featureset forces me to say "no thanks".

 

[GTR37]

I agree, but disagree that considering channels to be anything close to equivalent of being able to include 4 delays/4 drives/4 reverbs in a single preset is not reeeeeeally the right way to think about it. One fixed spot and likely some really wonky spillover if I remember correctly just makes it fundamentally a different mindset.

Other than the fact you can’t use them simultaneously
But HX stomp could literally not add 4 delays in any state
Spillover in AM4 is better

You could also just use presets with the luxury of gapless switching it easy to copy amp block and change the fx
And HX pitch block is sooo intensive a poly pitch and you are pretty much done

Even several amps are greyed out , dual cabs no chance

I mean 8 blocks on paper is great and all but in theory it could be 2 or 3 depending on what you Do
And no slag to the HX stomp it compact and does a lot at that price point i would just be more inclined to go with AM4 and it limitations at the moment but that personal choice

 

[Sascha Franck]

But HX stomp could literally not add 4 delays in any state

Huh? Why would that be?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

(I'd need .. a wallwart..)

I have to say, the power supply that came with mine is great -- compact little wall wart. Nothing like the Stomp Monstrosity.

At 1.5 amp draw, power does become one of the thought process involved with considering this on a board with other pedals. I've got a 1.9 amp PS...I'd probably just use one of those true-spot courtesy outlet extender things and plug the as-supplied power supply into that rather than trying to scale up my power supply situation.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Other than the fact you can’t use them simultaneously
But HX stomp could literally not add 4 delays in any state
Spillover in AM4 is better

You could also just use presets with the luxury of gapless switching it easy to copy amp block and change the fx
And HX pitch block is sooo intensive a poly pitch and you are pretty much done

Even several amps are greyed out , dual cabs no chance

I mean 8 blocks on paper is great and all but in theory it could be 2 or 3 depending on what you Do
And no slag to the HX stomp it compact and does a lot at that price point i would just be more inclined to go with AM4 and it limitations at the moment but that personal choice

Stomp has gapless (or at least near enough) preset switching such that its just gonna take a little bit of a different thought process of presets instead of scenes to still be able to functionally do the same thing. And unless you're working in scenes or using an external controller, then the channel switching on the AM4 becomes as cumbersome as preset switching. Channels is an important feature to consider, but thinking of it as "4 delays in one preset" is definitely not an accurate mindset.

 

[Sascha Franck]

At 1.5 amp draw, power does become one of the thought process involved with considering this on a board with other pedals.

Sure. But these days, there's quite some solutions. For instance, all of the larger HB ISO models by now come with an additional high ampere (3A) output dedicated for modeler usage.
Pretty high requirement, though.

Anyhow, ideally I wouldn't even have to mount it on any kinda board. Because if I was to do that, I could as well just keep using what I have. Which I likely will.

 

[bucephalus]

I'd say that even in EU/UK the price premium, new, over the Stomp is justified. It gets you into a price point of "I know its that much better, but do I want to spend that much money" for sure.

And the bigger stick in the mud is that...I imagine that in EU/UK a used Stomp is probably a dime-a-dozen at a price where the Fractal Premium is no longer commensurate with the improved performance.

Used stomps don't seem to be that much cheaper than new ime. Certainly not as cheap as you'd think they'd be. Was after one for a while but ended up picking an LT up second hand instead as wasn't that much extra to second hand stomp

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Channels is an important feature to consider, but thinking of it as "4 delays in one preset" is definitely not an accurate mindset.

I think it is. Just not 4 delays at the same time. Still can do 4 delays in one preset (or 4 amps or 4 whatever effects per block), so it's still the right mindset lol. To me it's still correct.

 

[GTR37]

Huh? Why would that be?

Are you talking with an amp block ?
I could be wrong but I don’t think you have the cpu to add 4 delays

 

[Sascha Franck]

Are you talking with an amp block ?
I could be wrong but I don’t think you have the cpu to add 4 delays

That's a Grammatico GSG (hence one of the more demanding amps) amp&cab block, followed by 4 stereo delays, Mod/Chorus Echo, Bucket Brigade, Cosmos Echo and Vintage Digital.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

View attachment 56019

That's a Grammatico GSG (hence one of the more demanding amps) amp&cab block, followed by 4 stereo delays, Mod/Chorus Echo, Bucket Brigade, Cosmos Echo and Vintage Digital.

But can anything else be added now? I have only played with hx stomp a little in the past. I was always on helix floor.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

But can anything else be added now? I have only played with hx stomp a little in the past. I was always on helix floor.

I haven't got the hardware, but in Helix Native if you go to settings and choose compatibility mode for 'stomp' - you can play around and get some idea of limitations of what can be done:

edit: that was all setup in mono, so it's worse in stereo, but still not too bad.