Fender TMP Firmware v1.7 Released

[ChordInversion]

I think the lesson from the TMP is: if you don't have parity on the day of your initial release, you'll probably never catch up. You can have updates to improve, but so does everybody else, which makes the parity goal forever out of reach.

Unless you really triple down to achieve that parity, yes. I applaud them trying to stake some distinctive territory by including this polyphonic synth stuff that seems to be at or near the very top. But that (and including a "cult following" bass amp from 2009 before they've fleshed out their overall amp offerings) does make me question if they'll ever actually catch up.

They're also debugging issues with scenes that resulted from this latest update. The report is that moving scenes around corrupts other scenes. Some bugs will likely happen with every software release, no matter who writes it. I'm not gonna beat Fender up for that. That said, the scene move error reported is not a common thing to have happen in the mature modelers, and was less likely to be an issue if they'd had scenes (or decided simply not to do them, and stuck by that) at initial release. They spent some of the last two years catching up on scenes.

 

[DrewJD82]

I think the thing with functionality over model choices is that they’ve got all the time in the world to add more amps, but if potential customers don’t see all the functionality they want/need now, it doesn’t matter what models are in it, they’re going to move onto the next unit that does have the functionality they need. Especially in the context of amps with a fair amount of overlap.

I think they’ve done a pretty damn good job at sticking to their word, the updates have come when they said they would and they’re sizable updates. They don’t even need to count mono/stereo versions off the same effects to make it seem like more content was added than there actually was.

 

[ChordInversion]

I think the thing with functionality over model choices is that they’ve got all the time in the world to add more amps, but if potential customers don’t see all the functionality they want/need now, it doesn’t matter what models are in it, they’re going to move onto the next unit that does have the functionality they need. Especially in the context of amps with a fair amount of overlap.

What I'm thinking about has not that much overlap, but ok. I do understand that point of view. But feature parity is a moving target that is almost impossible to catch. And polyphonic synth without a hex pickups is not something that seems to be one of those things they're losing customers without (though it could be something that brings certain people in).

I think they’ve done a pretty damn good job at sticking to their word, the updates have come when they said they would and they’re sizable updates. They don’t even need to count mono/stereo versions off the same effects to make it seem like more content was added than there actually was.

I don't honestly know what their word is, other than "we'll update every six months." Which, yes, they've done. But since no matter what you ask, the answer is always "all things in time" (which it's worth pointing out isn't even realistic - choices still have to be made), it's hard to assess whether the content of the updates meets any more specific expectation than "we will add things."

 

[cminiutti]

There are great synth sounds on all of these boxes. The hitch is always that they are monophonic. There are playing caveats and they do work generally speaking but you are always playing with those in the forefront in mind. Fender looks to have added the buzzword polyphonic but if every synth they add is as fast reacting as a slug; it really doesn't matter if you can play more than one note at a time.

Not only are Fender's synths polyphonic but they are virtually-zero latency. I measured like 2ms vs the dry signal

 

[Frodebro]

I think the thing with functionality over model choices is that they’ve got all the time in the world to add more amps, but if potential customers don’t see all the functionality they want/need now, it doesn’t matter what models are in it, they’re going to move onto the next unit that does have the functionality they need. Especially in the context of amps with a fair amount of overlap.

I think they’ve done a pretty damn good job at sticking to their word, the updates have come when they said they would and they’re sizable updates. They don’t even need to count mono/stereo versions off the same effects to make it seem like more content was added than there actually was.

Functionality (or the lack of, actually) was what prevented me from buying a TMP at launch. Not the amp modeling. I was looking for a floor unit for use with my band because I was tired of hauling the Axe Fx and FC12 back and forth. The TMP couldn’t do some things I was used to, but the FM9 could. So I went with that, and I can’t say I regret it. The TMP still hasn’t caught up to where the FM9 was back then, but the Fractal has seen some great improvements and additions in that time.

 

[DrewJD82]

I don't honestly know what their word is, other than "we'll update every six months." Which, yes, they've done. But since no matter what you ask, the answer is always "all things in time" (which it's worth pointing out isn't even realistic - choices still have to be made), it's hard to assess whether the content of the updates meets any more specific expectation than "we will add things."

That's pretty much been their word, that they weren't going to abandon it and will keep sticking content/features in it. There was a wall of "Is this going to be like the Cyber Twin?" when it was announce, it was in their best favor to not promise the world. I think that was a more intelligent move to make at that time as that was the first modeler stepping into that price arena since the QC and we know how that went down. Line 6 and Fractal don't really let anyone know what's coming down the road with detail and the rare times Cliff or Eric mention something that's coming, it's usually right before the update drops and I would imagine the only reason they say anything is because the work is already done.

If they announce stuff before the update day, everyone who isn't stoked about what's coming will dominate the conversation wherever the conversations are had, I'd want to minimize that as well to just the update day. We do the same thing with our tenants because the amount of progress that can get slowed down by people who aren't aware of the bigger picture or how much work is contingent on other work being completed just isn't worth it.

 

[Jarick]

Look, there's going to be tradeoffs for any of these modelers. If you're hell bent on having the most modeled amps ever, then Fractal is your gold standard. And I'd question why, if that's the most important thing to you, that you'd use anything other than Fractal.

One thing to keep in mind though is while Fractal has a ton of amps and effects, they aren't always matching the real thing. The Bogner Ecstasy amp doesn't have all the switches modeled so you're stuck with whatever they selected. The Friedman BE amp needs a bunch of different models to match the different switch settings and you can't get every combination. The Space Echo settings aren't anywhere near an actual RE-201. The Keeley Halo doesn't have the same knobs.

And after all that, you still need a computer to really use the Fractal. It just doesn't work well as a standalone unit. The Axe 3 UI is just as dated as the Kemper profiling tech is, and no amount of updates will fix that.

End of the day, Fender is doing the same thing Line 6 did and what NDSP did at least for the first couple years...major releases every six months with a bunch of new amps/effects/features. I don't recall Fender ever promising that they'd model every vintage amp they ever made.

Here's their press release announcing the product. Here's specifically what they promised:

"...musicians globally can expect a series of firmware updates for the Tone Master® Pro amplifier, beginning with the first update scheduled 90 days after launch, followed by updates at the six-month mark after launch and every six months thereafter. These updates will enable users to incorporate numerous additional amps and effects over time. Firmware updates will provide bug fixes, additional amp and effects models and exciting new features and functionality."

 

[JiveTurkey]

Plug your ears Chord.

Watching demo vid of the synths and whether or not anyone asked for them; they are pretty cool. My remaining question would be how you could route them given the way Fender handles the signal chain and overall control of it. When I had it; I couldn't engage loops with external synths via expression pedal and the routing was about as good as the Mustang Floor that was released a decade before; only with a monochrome screen.

 

[AlbertA]

 

[JiveTurkey]

On the other channel's vid I just watched; the HiWatt and Diezel amps sounded really good as well \m/

 

[ChordInversion]

That's pretty much been their word, that they weren't going to abandon it and will keep sticking content/features in it. There was a wall of "Is this going to be like the Cyber Twin?" when it was announce, it was in their best favor to not promise the world.

OK. Then yes, they have done that very well so far.

I think that was a more intelligent move to make at that time as that was the first modeler stepping into that price arena since the QC and we know how that went down. Line 6 and Fractal don't really let anyone know what's coming down the road with detail and the rare times Cliff or Eric mention something that's coming, it's usually right before the update drops and I would imagine the only reason they say anything is because the work is already done.

Yes, but they also weren't playing form so far behind in terms of selection.

If they announce stuff before the update day, everyone who isn't stoked about what's coming will dominate the conversation wherever the conversations are had, I'd want to minimize that as well to just the update day. We do the same thing with our tenants because the amount of progress that can get slowed down by people who aren't aware of the bigger picture or how much work is contingent on other work being completed just isn't worth it.

Sure, I get it. But my point is that it is so damned befuddling how they pick their amps. Again, ad nauseum: A Bassbreaker (combo and head), two Blues Juniors (really one with two cabinets, but they made it a different "model" because reasons), now some rando 'cult following' 1x15" combo amp with a tube pre and class D power amp. Two made up "blonde" models that are nothing like blonde Fenders and are in fact just other models without the bright cap and with a speaker swap. But they don't even finish the friggin' Vibro-King. I don't want a bunch of specific promises. I'd just like some sort of, for lack of a less corporate term, "vision" behind what it is they're doing regarding amps. Because to me, it looks like their own amp history is painfully uninteresting to them. I'd appreciate them letting me know that.

On the TMP Discord, one guy gushed about how "comprehensive" the selection is now. No matter who the manufacturer is, there will always be the completely devoted, self-appointed unpaid salesmen fanboys.

 

[ChordInversion]

Look, there's going to be tradeoffs for any of these modelers. If you're hell bent on having the most modeled amps ever, then Fractal is your gold standard. And I'd question why, if that's the most important thing to you, that you'd use anything other than Fractal.

That's not what I said, nor what I want. I'd like Fender to take the lead on Fender amps, in both quality and depth. I also like the skeumorphic interface as applied to their amps, many of which have built in (and distinctive sounding) trem and reverb, and I'd like that to be included whenever it is in the physical model - the standard they set themselves with black panel amps. They have other gaping holes in their selection, but I am more understanding of that taking more time.

One thing to keep in mind though is while Fractal has a ton of amps and effects, they aren't always matching the real thing. The Bogner Ecstasy amp doesn't have all the switches modeled so you're stuck with whatever they selected. The Friedman BE amp needs a bunch of different models to match the different switch settings and you can't get every combination. The Space Echo settings aren't anywhere near an actual RE-201. The Keeley Halo doesn't have the same knobs.

Yes, that is an approach which I was thinking Fender might deviate from, and then they didn't (Vibro-King).

And after all that, you still need a computer to really use the Fractal. It just doesn't work well as a standalone unit. The Axe 3 UI is just as dated as the Kemper profiling tech is, and no amount of updates will fix that.

I suspect that has motivated and will continue to motivate some buyers. It's not relevant to me. I edit on computer with every unit, because I hate hunching over the unit. And I learned the FM9T once and haven't been particularly challenged by it since. I do think the TMP interface has an advantage, and I have a specific use case for it, but the paucity of amps means I really can't do it yet.

End of the day, Fender is doing the same thing Line 6 did and what NDSP did at least for the first couple years...major releases every six months with a bunch of new amps/effects/features. I don't recall Fender ever promising that they'd model every vintage amp they ever made.

Nor do I. But they are still well behind on their own stuff, and haveinstead focused on budget (Junior) and/or made up ("Blonde") models. And to me, that's weird. Might not be to you. I also quibble with "a bunch" on the amps. Features, yes. Amps have been a trickle, especially when you consider that some "new" models were just lightly modded old models . They seem to note that this progrss is slow themselves, saying repeatedly that for them, every new model takes 3 months. Time they invrested in...interesting choices.

Here's their press release announcing the product. Here's specifically what they promised:

OK. That's vague other than timing (content is not mentioned), but I am not (and have not been) accusing them of violating promises, only on being vague, specifically about their attitude toward their own amp history.

 

[ChordInversion]

Plug your ears Chord.

Watching demo vid of the synths and whether or not anyone asked for them; they are pretty cool. My remaining question would be how you could route them given the way Fender handles the signal chain and overall control of it. When I had it; I couldn't engage loops with external synths via expression pedal and the routing was about as good as the Mustang Floor that was released a decade before; only with a monochrome screen.

I don't deny the synths are great, even positioning Fender as the leader in that area. No argument whatsoever. I've already stated my admiration for them diving in and staking their claim to leadership on a distinctive capability. Not sure about the routing. I can look at it next time I have the editor open.

 

[ChordInversion]

On the other channel's vid I just watched; the HiWatt and Diezel amps sounded really good as well \m/

I don't have an opinion on the Diezel (I don't play metal), but I like the Hiwatt. I was a little concerned about them doing the Canadian import version for some reason, but I can indeed get satisfying Hiwatt sounds out of it. I haven't back to backed it with my FM9T yet (I have a Hiwatt preset on mine that I love), but nothing bad leapt out at me or anything.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I’m still waiting for the Insane model on my helix.
As someone who has no stake in the TMP game, and has just been watching things develop from afar, it’s actually starting to pique my interest. As I see it, Fender is taking the platform seriously enough to properly develop it. And true to the brand’s legacy, they’re doing it in a slow and frustrating manner.

 

[ChordInversion]

I’m still waiting for the Insane model on my helix.
As someone who has no stake in the TMP game, and has just been watching things develop from afar, it’s actually starting to pique my interest. As I see it, Fender is taking the platform seriously enough to properly develop it. And true to the brand’s legacy, they’re doing it in a slow and frustrating manner.

You know, I think that's a totally fair summary. It's been two years, and they still have an unfinished amp model and scenes functionality that is lagging. They do have the best dang synth, though. That's something. And lots of people love the convolution reverbs.

What I also find interesting is how little marketing Fender gives it. I really wonder how those conversations go.