luckymethod
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I doubt they don't know it. They just maximized profits by picking cheap parts.
Fender FR-10/FR-12 noise reduction mod
- Thread starter Lysander
- Start date
Lysander
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Not that i disagree but, noise aside, the FR-12 sounds really good. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.
CraigB1960
Newbie
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- 7
Very informative! I went a head and ordered 6 of the TI OPA4228PA from Digikey. Price is the same for the OPA4227PA so going with the higher slew rate of the OPA4228PA.
I want to get 2 FR-12's, but have been holding back, but this is an easy fix for sure. Certainly appreciate @Lysander and @aflynt for your work on this!
I want to get 2 FR-12's, but have been holding back, but this is an easy fix for sure. Certainly appreciate @Lysander and @aflynt for your work on this!
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Great posts by the OP.
Just on the cheap parts thing - products in the electronics/music area have a bill of materials to the manufacturer which can be as little as 10% of full retail price. So a $2000 @ retail audio interface might have as little as $200 worth of parts in the quantities that manufacturers from larger corporations buy them. This is where the component price shaving comes in because driving the bill of materials down to meet a target set by corporate bean counters directly impacts quality and probably the mental health of their engineers.
Famously, Fender has form on this going back to the period after the sale to CBS. For example, the silverface line ran for more than a decade and gradually diminished in quality reportedly because the better sounding parts (ie those selected when Leo was running things) - eg capacitors - were gradually removed over the years and replaced with cheaper and worse sounding substitutes - endless salami slicing to boost the bottom line. That whole process may have happened here before the thing even made it to mass production.
Just on the cheap parts thing - products in the electronics/music area have a bill of materials to the manufacturer which can be as little as 10% of full retail price. So a $2000 @ retail audio interface might have as little as $200 worth of parts in the quantities that manufacturers from larger corporations buy them. This is where the component price shaving comes in because driving the bill of materials down to meet a target set by corporate bean counters directly impacts quality and probably the mental health of their engineers.
Famously, Fender has form on this going back to the period after the sale to CBS. For example, the silverface line ran for more than a decade and gradually diminished in quality reportedly because the better sounding parts (ie those selected when Leo was running things) - eg capacitors - were gradually removed over the years and replaced with cheaper and worse sounding substitutes - endless salami slicing to boost the bottom line. That whole process may have happened here before the thing even made it to mass production.
Lysander
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Follow up: my FR-12 is incredibly quiet after this mod, and sounds just as good as it did before... sans hiss. Really, really happy with how this turned out. It's remarkable how a simple opamp change can cut noise by 5dBA, which is going from "that's annoying" all the way to "goddamn, is this thing on?".
I also think switching input/output opamps has slightly improved tonality as well, but don't quote me on it; this can be just my brain playing tricks on me. If there's an improvement, it's marginal at best, but i could swear the amp feels and reacts slightly better than it did before.
But yeah, very very very silent. Last night i played some video on my computer, which was hooked to Helix via USB, and it blasted audio through the amp at an ungodly volume: the FR-12 sits 60cm (2ft) away from me, and it's so quiet now that i accidentally left it on for an hour without even noticing
I'd say it's now about as quiet as the Powercab 112 it recently replaced.
Looking forward for reports from those modding with through-hole ICs (OPA4227 et al). I expect similar results, without the hassle of dealing with surface mount parts - that alone will be probably worth the price difference for most.
I also think switching input/output opamps has slightly improved tonality as well, but don't quote me on it; this can be just my brain playing tricks on me. If there's an improvement, it's marginal at best, but i could swear the amp feels and reacts slightly better than it did before.
But yeah, very very very silent. Last night i played some video on my computer, which was hooked to Helix via USB, and it blasted audio through the amp at an ungodly volume: the FR-12 sits 60cm (2ft) away from me, and it's so quiet now that i accidentally left it on for an hour without even noticing
I'd say it's now about as quiet as the Powercab 112 it recently replaced.Looking forward for reports from those modding with through-hole ICs (OPA4227 et al). I expect similar results, without the hassle of dealing with surface mount parts - that alone will be probably worth the price difference for most.
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Lysander
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Plot Twist: Lysander works for Fender and this is the way they are “taking care of the issue”
ragingplatypi
Roadie
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- 922
This makes me think of the Bill M mods for the Blues Jr.
norpe
Newbie
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- 1
I received my components from Mouser today, went with three OPA4227PA and IC sockets. It took me about 2 hours to complete the mod, and I felt a bit in over my head a couple of times. To my big surprise it worked the first time I turned on the FR-12 again.
The hiss / noise is almost gone. You can still hear it close to the speaker, but it is about the same level as the ambient room noise. I don't mind the noise at all when playing after the mod, compared to before when it was noticeable. The FR-12 is now my preferred way to use my Axe-Fx III, by far.
Many thanks to @Lysander for this mod!
The hiss / noise is almost gone. You can still hear it close to the speaker, but it is about the same level as the ambient room noise. I don't mind the noise at all when playing after the mod, compared to before when it was noticeable. The FR-12 is now my preferred way to use my Axe-Fx III, by far.
Many thanks to @Lysander for this mod!
Lysander
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Hell, If you're willing to fly to Europe, i'll fix your amps and buy you a beer too.
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“Honey, I’ll be right back, also where is my passport?”
Lysander
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Wish i did...
Honestly, there's not much to it, but you will need soldering experience. I'd otherwise suggest finding someone to do the chip swap for you; the process should be relatively fast (i.e. cheap).
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aflynt
Roadie
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- 156
I got my 3 OPA4228 chips, 2 OPA2134PA chips, and corresponding DIP sockets in yesterday. I installed the sockets this evening (using a nifty desoldering iron I just got for $37 off Amazon). Then I popped in the 3 OPA4228s (to replace the TL084s) and 2 RC4558s and measured the noise floor. Overall noise floor measured right off the grill dropped 10db compared to stock. Then I popped in the 2 OPA2134s (to replace the RC4558s) and the noise floor didn’t change at all. I’ll listen the sound tomorrow to see if that’s any different at all (everyone’s in bed right now so I can’t play loud). Anyway, further proof that @Lysander is 100% right on all counts.
Detailed noise floor measurements:
STOCK:
40db @1” SPL over woofer
60db @1” SPL over tweeter
38db @3’ SPL
OPA4228s replacing 3 TL084s:
30db @1” SPL over woofer (at or below ambient noise floor)
50db @1” SPL over tweeter
30db @3’ SPL (at or below ambient noise floor)
-Aaron
Detailed noise floor measurements:
STOCK:
40db @1” SPL over woofer
60db @1” SPL over tweeter
38db @3’ SPL
OPA4228s replacing 3 TL084s:
30db @1” SPL over woofer (at or below ambient noise floor)
50db @1” SPL over tweeter
30db @3’ SPL (at or below ambient noise floor)
-Aaron
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