F1 Fans Untie!

[jay mitchell]

"Formula One comes out of post World War II aviation manufacturers in the UK?"

First, Grand Prix racing predates WWII by quite a few years.

Second, Grand Prix manufacturers were based in Italy, Germany, France, and, UK, Australia, etc. "Aviation manufacturers in the UK" had very little, if anything, to do with the evolution of this form of racing.

Third, British post-WWII monoposto racing cars were based originally on motorcycle, not aircraft, engines. I owned an example of such a car: a MKXII Cooper 500cc F3 car. It had a Norton Manx 500cc engine and transmission and used suspension parts from the prewar Fiat Topolino. The first mid-engined car to win an F1 championship was an evolutionary development of that design.

Fourth, most of the manufacturers that contested F1 post-WWII were automobile fabricators and/or manufacturers. The engines used in many, if not most, British F1 and F2 cars in the 1950s were manufactured, by Coventry-Climax, a company that made engines for firepumps, not aircraft. Even the engine type number prefix ("FPF") reflected that origin: "Fire Pump Featherweight."

 

[fretworn]

I didn’t mean to imply that aircraft engines were being used… I’m talking about the aerospace experience that the mechanics from aircraft industry became in Enzo’s Garagistas.

If you don’t think aviation manufacturing experience had/has a huge role in formula one… Well, I don’t even think I need to show you the door lol

 

[jay mitchell]

I didn’t mean to imply that aircraft engines were being used…

Here's exactly what you said:

"So it’s important to understand that Formula One comes out of post World War II aviation manufacturers in the UK, understanding powerful engines and light weight to make a whole new sport."

Postwar-through-early 1960s engines in British F1 cars were not noteworthy for their power output, nor did they have anything to do with aircraft design. Nor did Enzo Ferrari, nor Jack Brabham, nor John Cooper, nor Bruce McLaren.

I’m talking about the aerospace experience that the mechanics from aircraft industry became in Enzo’s Garagistas.

"Enzo's Garagistas" certainly didn't come from "aviation manufacturers in the UK." OTOH, Colin Chapman did. He founded Lotus. I own one of those as well. A number of years ago, I interviewed his son, Clive, for an article in the US Lotus club's newsletter, Remarque. I have a small acquaintance with the history of racing monoposto designs.

If you don’t think aviation manufacturing experience had/has a huge role in formula one…

That is not at all what you said.

 

[fretworn]

Here's exactly what you said:

"So it’s important to understand that Formula One comes out of post World War II aviation manufacturers in the UK, understanding powerful engines and light weight to make a whole new sport."

Postwar-through-early 1960s engines in British F1 cars were not noteworthy for their power output, nor did they have anything to do with aircraft design. Nor did Enzo Ferrari, nor Jack Brabham, nor John Cooper, nor Bruce McLaren.

"Enzo's Garagistas" certainly didn't come from "aviation manufacturers in the UK." OTOH, Colin Chapman did. He founded Lotus. I own one of those as well. A number of years ago, I interviewed his son, Clive, for an article in the US Lotus club's newsletter, Remarque. I have a small acquaintance with the history of racing monoposto designs.

That is not at all what you said.

Pedantic much?

What a small life to have to compulsively go correct things fruitlessly on the Internet … you’re reading into stuff a little too deeply J lol

Enjoy your day son

 

[jay mitchell]

What a small life to have to compulsively go correct things fruitlessly on the Internet …

So lemme get this straight: you think publicly presenting BS on a subject you clearly know little or nothing about as fact, then engaging in personal attacks when your BS called out, is somehow a "large" life?

 

[fretworn]

So lemme get this straight: you think publicly presenting BS on a subject you clearly know little or nothing about as fact, then engaging in personal attacks when your BS called out, is somehow a "large" life?

Lol you’re so f*cking sharp bro … lmao

Get a clue and find your calm; you assume far too much here

But if you want to fix all the errors of the Internet, be my guest fool …

 

[dbagchee]

Go Team Alfa! Nice seeing Zhou moving up!

 

[fretworn]

Should be interesting …

 

[la szum]

Why am I cheering for everyone but Max at this point.

 

[fretworn]

Because Americans like underdogs …

 

[HotRats]

I'm so depressed... Ferrari is getting worse

 

[fretworn]

I'm so depressed... Ferrari is getting worse

Should’ve kept Binotto around … but Elkan said “no” in Italian.

 

[jay mitchell]

A few observations about this year's F1 circus:

1. Checo makes way too many mistakes. At least this weekend he screwed up in practice rather than qualifying.
2. Ferrari seems to have a talent for blowing their tire strategy. Hopefully they'll do better tomorrow.
3. Mercedes' pit stops are inexcusably long. C'mon guys, this is like free throws in basketball. You mess them up, it's entirely on you.
4. Max is a near-impeccable driver. Funny, I don't recall his dad (Jos) being anywhere near that good. True, Max does have the best car, but look at his teammate's performance for proof that it ain't all car.
5. Lando Norris is on a roll, and McLaren appears to be making a major comeback.
6. So far this year, most of the real excitement has been in contests for sub-podium positions.
7. Mercedes appears to have (finally) figured out something major.
8. Lewis' best qualifying runs are almost always in the last few seconds of a session. This time, his car finally appeared up to the task. Too bad his teammate got stuck in traffic.

IMO, the use of time penalties (or deleting qualifying runs) for "course limits" violations has major downsides in wheel-to-wheel racing. I autocrossed actively for 18+ years, and time penalties (2 seconds per cone downed) are an integral part of that sport. In F1 (or any other W2W racing format), if the fastest way around the track puts you two inches from a "course limits" violation, then maybe some course design changes are in order.

 

[HotRats]

Should’ve kept Binotto around … but Elkan said “no” in Italian.

Problems are deeper than Binotto/Vasseur.

It's clear to me that the team is not capable of developing a car like their competitors do.

They are not good enough, that's it.
And it's a shame.

Last year they screwed up big time, this year they already made big upgrades that brought only minor advantages.

 

[fretworn]

That was fun …

 

[HotRats]

That was fun …

Not at all

 

[fretworn]

Ferrari can’t get out of their own way…

They used to be my team for a long time, but the way the exited Sebastian Vettel was kind of a dealbreaker. I was a fan of Ross Braun, Jean Todt, and Michael for the longest time.

 

[la szum]

Because Americans like underdogs …

We like competition and the drama of a contest.... and this season in F1 there is neither.

 

[fretworn]

We like competition and the drama of a contest.... and this season in F1 there is neither.

It’s not all about first place… At least if you watch Formula 1. Max will be world champion this year; deservedly.

Like I said before… you may have missed all the Merc domination … I don’t mind Red Bull being at the head of the pack for a while as they have some wicked smart people on their team as well as high performers.

Clearly, other teams are making huge strides. See McLaren. While other teams continue to chunder; see Ferrari.

I find the details of the sport fascinating.

 

[fretworn]