E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[Chocol8]

Both acoustic drums and real tube amps (in general) raise stage volume and make it less likely you will have a good mix at FOH.

On Sunday, my wife and went to see a duo called Sway Wild at a house concert. Literally in someone's family room with about 60-75 people. It's a two person act with electric guitar and drums or electric guitar and amplified acoustic guitar. The guitar was through a Deluxe Reverb and the drums were acoustic drums. The "stage" volume levels were fine, and the mix through the PA was also great. It doesn't hurt that the sound man/host is also a musician and knows what he is doing and that the two musicians were both experienced pros who have been touring small venues for over a decade.

Clearly not a heavy rock type act where the drummer hits hard, but it works most of the time for a LOT of music.

 

[Chocol8]

You're just wrong.

Whether he is right or wrong depends on the types of music you listen to and how. There are a ton of people these days who only hear music on Spotify or at larger concerts. They don't see a lot of smaller shows, and they listen to a fairly narrow range of music. Fo those people he is probably correct. For many of us though, the poop is deserved.

 

[Orvillain]

Anyone that spends as much time and effort as you do intentionally baiting people is likely not worth my time.... or anyone else's for that matter. I am happy for you that there are a few of your acolytes here that praise your name. It must fill some void you have.

Your entire existence on this forum is you baiting people and looking down on them because their experiences don't align with yours. It is rife throughout your 300 odd posts here. Also, from what I can tell, you never did tell us whether you like dil or sweet pickles.

 

[Orvillain]

Whether he is right or wrong depends on the types of music you listen to and how. There are a ton of people these days who only hear music on Spotify or at larger concerts. They don't see a lot of smaller shows, and they listen to a fairly narrow range of music. Fo those people he is probably correct. For many of us though, the poop is deserved.

When I mix a live band - which I will fully grant, isn't my primary field - I don't have to do much more than EQ and gating on drums to get them to sound fat. I don't really see how EQ and gating would constitute not sounding "natural" but yknow... everyone has their threshold. Sometimes if it aint Coltrane recorded with 1 shit mic in a BDSM basement, then it simply isn't real music to some people.

shrug

 

[Orvillain]

Both acoustic drums and real tube amps (in general) raise stage volume and make it less likely you will have a good mix at FOH.

Oh, this is also false btw.

 

[Chocol8]

Coltrane recorded with 1 shit mic in a BDSM basement

DAMN! Another great show I missed by being born too late!

 

[HotRats]

I completely agree. This isn't about if acoustic drums sound better than eDrums. This is about if the band sounds better with Acoustic or eDrums. Everything else is just noise.

I do agree with myself

Thing is the answer to the above question is not "yes, e-drums make bands sound better" simply because that's not true.

The main reason is that a nice acoustic drums kit played by a good drummer sound great in person and a foh mix built around it sounds great too.

It's not about stage volume, bleeding or direct sound reaching the audience.

It's about doing things right with what you have.

If you try to mix a band, with acoustic drums and amps on stage - in a small venue, like they were in arena where direct sound is irrelevant, you should be fired immediately.

Mixing is about using the sounds you have and make them work the best and not bending them to your narcissistic will.

 

[Orvillain]

Mixing is about using the sounds you have and make them work the best and not bending them to your narcissistic will.

Nailed it. Change your name to HotPants.

 

[[Nathan]]

If Kemper release an eDrum kit it’s gonna break page records here

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

If Kemper release an eDrum kit it’s gonna break page records here

Kick, drum, Hi-Hat: $800

Each additional drum: $250

Release timeline and details for mkII are laid out in CK’s will.

 

[paisleywookiee]

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See? Real drums.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Both acoustic drums and real tube amps (in general) raise stage volume and make it less likely you will have a good mix at FOH.

I’m not sure I believe you’ve ever been to a rock concert, big or small. You certainly haven’t mixed one.
Or jazz, for that matter. Al Di Meola or Scofield’s bands didn’t use eDrums or modelers either. Mixes were insane, despite a relatively dense group in Sco’s case. In 2000.
But hey. I’m not an EE, so what do I know.

 

[OneEng]

On Sunday, my wife and went to see a duo called Sway Wild at a house concert. Literally in someone's family room with about 60-75 people. It's a two person act with electric guitar and drums or electric guitar and amplified acoustic guitar. The guitar was through a Deluxe Reverb and the drums were acoustic drums. The "stage" volume levels were fine, and the mix through the PA was also great. It doesn't hurt that the sound man/host is also a musician and knows what he is doing and that the two musicians were both experienced pros who have been touring small venues for over a decade.

Clearly not a heavy rock type act where the drummer hits hard, but it works most of the time for a LOT of music.

I guess in my neck of the woods, I see it hurt more than it helps by a pretty decent margin. Having the sound man be the host also greatly helps the odds that the mix will be good.

It isn't that it can't be done (I have both done it AND mixed for groups that did it), it is just that the odds of having volume issues is much higher with acoustic drums and tube amps.

I do agree with myself

Thing is the answer to the above question is not "yes, e-drums make bands sound better" simply because that's not true.

The main reason is that a nice acoustic drums kit played by a good drummer sound great in person and a foh mix built around it sounds great too.

It's not about stage volume, bleeding or direct sound reaching the audience.

It's about doing things right with what you have.

If you try to mix a band, with acoustic drums and amps on stage - in a small venue, like they were in arena where direct sound is irrelevant, you should be fired immediately.

Mixing is about using the sounds you have and make them work the best and not bending them to your narcissistic will.

When gigging live, it is always about doing things right with what you have. I have seen far too many groups get things wrong and all too often it starts with loud acoustic drums.

I’m not sure I believe you’ve ever been to a rock concert, big or small. You certainly haven’t mixed one.
Or jazz, for that matter. Al Di Meola or Scofield’s bands didn’t use eDrums or modelers either. Mixes were insane, despite a relatively dense group in Sco’s case. In 2000.
But hey. I’m not an EE, so what do I know.

Wow. Not sure where you got the idea I give a rats ass about what YOU believe. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

George Burns smoked cigars his entire adult life and lived to 100. Cigars must be great for your health eh?

What do you know? Get serious. You contribute so little meaningful information in your posts that the answer is pretty darned evident. Hopefully you grow up some day. If not, this forum seems to tolerate infantile behavior very well.

How exactly DO you handle a loud drummer in a small to medium venue? What IS the answer if the venue owner asks you to keep it down? .... or have you NEVER heard of such a thing? For that matter, what do you do with a lead player that has to get "his tone" with a JCM 900 dimed with a PAIR of 4x12's? ..... or have you never heard of anything like this ever happening?

It may be that I simply have been unfortunate enough to hear so many bands get these things wrong. Such a line of argument would have been refreshing, but there just seems to be such a desire to resort to Jr. High mentality and name calling that anything resembling intelligent conversation just gets blown over by the juvenile thoughts of the mob.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I guess in my neck of the woods, I see it hurt more than it helps by a pretty decent margin. Having the sound man be the host also greatly helps the odds that the mix will be good.

It isn't that it can't be done (I have both done it AND mixed for groups that did it), it is just that the odds of having volume issues is much higher with acoustic drums and tube amps.

When gigging live, it is always about doing things right with what you have. I have seen far too many groups get things wrong and all too often it starts with loud acoustic drums.

Wow. Not sure where you got the idea I give a rats ass about what YOU believe. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

George Burns smoked cigars his entire adult life and lived to 100. Cigars must be great for your health eh?

What do you know? Get serious. You contribute so little meaningful information in your posts that the answer is pretty darned evident. Hopefully you grow up some day. If not, this forum seems to tolerate infantile behavior very well.

How exactly DO you handle a loud drummer in a small to medium venue? What IS the answer if the venue owner asks you to keep it down? .... or have you NEVER heard of such a thing? For that matter, what do you do with a lead player that has to get "his tone" with a JCM 900 dimed with a PAIR of 4x12's? ..... or have you never heard of anything like this ever happening?

It may be that I simply have been unfortunate enough to hear so many bands get these things wrong. Such a line of argument would have been refreshing, but there just seems to be such a desire to resort to Jr. High mentality and name calling that anything resembling intelligent conversation just gets blown over by the juvenile thoughts of the mob.

Wow. Triggered.

When you say stupid things, you’re going to get reactions. But go ahead, spew the babble.

And I didn’t call you any names. I can though, if you want.

The amount of hubris you display on a daily basis is amazing though.

 

[spawnofthesith]

nothing Worse than holier than though poseur “sound guys”

 

[sashimi]

Imagine you show up to the gig and the sound guy is a prom DJ telling your drummer he’d sound better on an electronic kit

 

[OneEng]

Many a sound guy has had to sit and listen to crap all night because so many musicians are so smart they know more than the guys running the FOH.

I know some guys that do FOH sound for a living, but honestly, they wouldn't put up with loud drums and guitar amps. They get paid good money (likely more than the people spewing fecal matter in my general direction could ever afford) to make bands sound great. Great bands care very much about their FOH sound.

You guys are hilarious. Those useless FOH sound guys. What do they know anyway?

"Imagine you show up to a gig" .... you can just stop there. I am guessing most of you don't actually gig and that it is unlikely that most of you would have the first clue what to do if you were standing in front of a modern digital console.... other than stare at the pretty lights.

eDrums are wonderful to mix. Bar crowds love em. Drummers .... not so much. eDrums aren't for every situation, but for rock in a small to medium club there isn't anything that makes a band sound better.

I get it though. They are pretty expensive (at least the decent ones). Kinda hard for lots of musicians to afford. Drummers don't like them, and they don't work for Jazz at all.

Still, the mic kit I keep around JUST for drums (had it for quite a while... back when I had a drummer with an acoustic kit) is fairly expensive. The kick mic alone is pricy, and the condenser overheads cost a pretty penny too. Then you add the stands and brackets, all the channels on the mixer it takes up, all the time they take to setup... the space they take up.... acoustic drums are a PITA compared to eDrums.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Many a sound guy has had to sit and listen to crap all night because so many musicians are so smart they know more than the guys running the FOH.

I know some guys that do FOH sound for a living, but honestly, they wouldn't put up with loud drums and guitar amps. They get paid good money (likely more than the people spewing fecal matter in my general direction could ever afford) to make bands sound great. Great bands care very much about their FOH sound.

You guys are hilarious. Those useless FOH sound guys. What do they know anyway?

"Imagine you show up to a gig" .... you can just stop there. I am guessing most of you don't actually gig and that it is unlikely that most of you would have the first clue what to do if you were standing in front of a modern digital console.... other than stare at the pretty lights.

eDrums are wonderful to mix. Bar crowds love em. Drummers .... not so much. eDrums aren't for every situation, but for rock in a small to medium club there isn't anything that makes a band sound better.

I get it though. They are pretty expensive (at least the decent ones). Kinda hard for lots of musicians to afford. Drummers don't like them, and they don't work for Jazz at all.

Still, the mic kit I keep around JUST for drums (had it for quite a while... back when I had a drummer with an acoustic kit) is fairly expensive. The kick mic alone is pricy, and the condenser overheads cost a pretty penny too. Then you add the stands and brackets, all the channels on the mixer it takes up, all the time they take to setup... the space they take up.... acoustic drums are a PITA compared to eDrums.

Dude. Just stop. Anyone that actually gigs and knows/talks to sound guys know you’re full of shit


You’re bitching about insults but every post you make is nonsensical condescending bullshit and anyone that plays out knows it

 

[spawnofthesith]

Again no legitimate working sound guy in Denver at least shares your garbage opinions. Give it a rest, and pray you can still get golf course and prom gigs in the future despite the fact you self admittedly suck at running live sound

 

[[Nathan]]

These guys really wanted to use their own drums but the sound guy was like, this is the superior way of doing things, trust me.