paisleywookiee
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Gotta use the right tools though.
E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?
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metropolis_4
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There’s a lot of personal opinion that goes into that though - what’s worth it and what’s not.
Would you be interested in playing in a band that wanted you to trigger all your guitar parts live on a keyboard? After all, that would just be a tool for the job wouldn’t it?
sashimi
Roadie
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MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
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Don’t take the piss, didn’t you hear about how amazing it sounded?You must have missed the part where he DJ’d his daughter’s high school prom
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Chocol8
Shredder
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There are a lot of ways for a musician to create a beat, a harmony and a melody. Guitars, bass, drums, keys, they are all just tools and there are other tools that can also do the job.
Real drums have issues. E drums have issues. Samples and backing tracks have issues. Yet, they all can work well.
paisleywookiee
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Sure. I use eDrums too. I’m just not under any illusion that they’re remotely satisfying to play, compared to acoustic drums.
Chocol8
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I'll add that to my list...
Shit I don't give a fuck about when deciding to go to a live show:
- Who is doing the mix and how good the kick will sound
- Whether the drummer is going to be happy or even remotely satisfied with his tools
- If there even will be a drummer
- What kind of tone capacitors the guitarist uses
- Does the band use amps or modelers or guitar synths
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
Shredder
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That's why God made the ignore button. Now if you guys would stop quoting him...I've made and been involved with making products that have made hundreds of thousands through to millions of dollars, but you keep goin' witcha badself.
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Why do we get so precious about "real" drums when none of us have heard real drums
live or in the studio for quite some time now?
Seriously. Drums have been more hyped/augmented/lifted/massaged than virtually
any other instrument in a Rock context outside of Vocals and Autotune.
Hell, I bet Drums take the cake as the most Synthesized of all Instruments outside of actual Synths.
Throw in playing to a click, aligned on a grid, and virtually anything and everything that is
"real" and "authentic" about drums has been neutered and removed from the process entirely.
I hear live drums regularly, any time I walk into Piper's, haven't heard/seen anyone triggering kicks or snares there-
Here's Nicko McBrain NOT blowing the vocal mic away-
I think the last show I saw was the Sessanta show? If there's samples on this kit then it's the best sounding samples/triggering mechanism I've ever heard-
The Geoff Tate show was before that.....
David Gilmour before that.....again, if these were samples, it's the best I've ever heard samples sound with a remarkable ability to allow the dynamics of a human through-
Metallica was before that, they're triggering Lars kick/snare mainly because there's 4 kits on the stage and it's the easiest way to keep them consistent from kit to kit....and surely doesn't hurt Lars.
Tool before that, Danny ain't using no triggers, just his Mandala pads-
Regardless, there's a huge difference between blending an acoustic drum with a sample and relying on just a sample for the entire set; one sounds like a human and one sounds like a drum machine.
paisleywookiee
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You’re okay with no drummer and synth guitars? Okay.
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Nope.
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I honestly don't feel like haggling here today. It just gets to the point of being boring and tiresome.
I do stand by my comments, though.
There's a lot of massaging of the drums that I don't think some are being entirely honest and aware
of. But I am not going to beat any point to death, or try to debate it---at least not today---too nice
outside here to be doing that today.
I get the
reaction to my statement. I will stand pretty firm in that what we hear in drums, live and recorded, isfar less actual acoustic drums than it is not. By a large percentage, too. Going to a club for a few hours locally is not
what I was referring to, and doesn't offset the vast majourity of drums we hear on the daily that are massaged, produced,
embellished, and made to be something far more than a simple acoustic kit mic'd up could ever hope or dream to be.
Not sure why it is not completely obvious.
Doesn't seem even remotely like an outlandish statement for anyone to make.
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Some of those things are definitely important to me, I love a lot of great drummers, it'd be shitty seeing Dream Theater or Tool without Portnoy or Carey, I wouldn't go. If, for some reason, all the reports on every show prior were "their kicks sound like shit for some reason...every night", yep, I'd be concerned. And I'd want them both happy and satisfied with their tools so they can play killer shows that make me want to play drums like they always have.
And some guys I'd rather see on amps than modelers; at an Yngwie show if you can get close enough to the stage, it's an experience. Same with EJ. That said, if Gilmour were playing I wouldn't care what he were using.
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I honestly don't feel like haggling here today. It just gets to the point of being boring and tiresome.
I do stand by my comments, though.
There's a lot of massaging of the drums that I don't think some are being entirely honest and aware
of. But I am not going to beat any point to death, or try to debate it---at least not today---too nice
outside here to be doing that today.
I get the
far less actual acoustic drums than it is not. By a large percentage, too. Going to a club for a few hours locally is not
what I was referring to, and doesn't offset the vast majourity of drums we hear on the daily that are massaged, produced,
embellished, and made to be something far more than a simple acoustic kit mic'd up could ever hope or dream to be.
Not sure why it is not completely obvious.
I think you guys are hearing too many kits with old, shitty heads or aren't tuned properly.
If the kit is a good one, not even a great one, it needs very little to make it sound like something you'd hear on an album. If someone is going for extremes they'll slap a sample on it, but it's not that different than EQ'ing guitar tones to fit a mix; the more you EQ, the less natural it sounds.
Using this as an example because my buddy helps set these shoots up, but they're not doing any crazy post-EQ at all, this is how they sell kits without people ever playing them-
HotRats
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I honestly don't feel like haggling here today. It just gets to the point of being boring and tiresome.
I do stand by my comments, though.
There's a lot of massaging of the drums that I don't think some are being entirely honest and aware
of. But I am not going to beat any point to death, or try to debate it---at least not today---too nice
outside here to be doing that today.
I get the
far less actual acoustic drums than it is not. By a large percentage, too. Going to a club for a few hours locally is not
what I was referring to, and doesn't offset the vast majourity of drums we hear on the daily that are massaged, produced,
embellished, and made to be something far more than a simple acoustic kit mic'd up could ever hope or dream to be.
Not sure why it is not completely obvious.
Ok, ok, ok, hold on a second.
This discussion is about the sound of drums in a live setting and whether e-drums are a better tool than acoustic ones or not.
In other words, do bands sound better if they use e-drums instead of acoustic ones (hyped or not)?
Chocol8
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I listen to a lot of different music, not just rock/blues/metal/country and yes, sometimes there are no drums and sometimes no guitars at all. If you only listen to music with a drum kit and electric guitar, I think you are missing a lot of great artists today and from the past.
Both acoustic drums and real tube amps (in general) raise stage volume and make it less likely you will have a good mix at FOH.
Anyone that spends as much time and effort as you do intentionally baiting people is likely not worth my time.... or anyone else's for that matter. I am happy for you that there are a few of your acolytes here that praise your name. It must fill some void you have.
Agree. It is becoming pointless and degrading into "my dad is bigger than your dad". And you are correct. Acoustic drums are the most processed and modified instrument sounds on the stage (in most cases).I honestly don't feel like haggling here today. It just gets to the point of being boring and tiresome.
I do stand by my comments, though.
There's a lot of massaging of the drums that I don't think some are being entirely honest and aware
of. But I am not going to beat any point to death, or try to debate it---at least not today---too nice
outside here to be doing that today.
I completely agree. This isn't about if acoustic drums sound better than eDrums. This is about if the band sounds better with Acoustic or eDrums. Everything else is just noise.
Chocol8
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OK, if I am going to see Tool, I hope the drums sound good, but even then, I am not thinking about how the drums are going to sound when typing my credit card info into TicketScammer. If the next night I am going to a bluegrass show with an old HS friend or an EDM show with my daughter, I don't expect to see drums at all. I see a lot of folk and singer songwriter stuff with the wife where there are no drums or the percussion is done without a drum kit, other times there is a drummer, but much like in a jazz club, they are using techniques to keep the volume down that just don't work with anything I would call rock.
For more guitar type music, If I go see Deven Townsend, I don't care if he is using a modeler or plugins or even what guitar he is using. I am there for his playing. If I go see Joe Bonamasa OTOH, I kinda do want to hear a bunch of real amps and great classic guitars because that is kinda part of his schtick. I have seen Robben Ford a few times in pretty small places, and I have been able to hear his Dumble up close in person and also hear him play through (what I assume were) rented Fenders. I thought hearing the famous Dumble from 15 feet away was a great experience and glad I was able to do that, even though I honestly think his tone and playing was better through the run of the mill Fenders, and could have been as good or better through a modeler.
So, maybe I care a little bit, but it never enters my mind when I am deciding to buy tickets or not.
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You're just wrong. Which is why I poo-poo'd your post. It was meant lovingly.I get the
far less actual acoustic drums than it is not. By a large percentage, too. Going to a club for a few hours locally is not
what I was referring to, and doesn't offset the vast majourity of drums we hear on the daily that are massaged, produced,
embellished, and made to be something far more than a simple acoustic kit mic'd up could ever hope or dream to be.
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