E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[metropolis_4]

No one sings louder than a drum kit so singing technique can't really help you get over the problem if the vocal mic is close to the drums.

I have never played an eDrum that felt like an acoustic kit and I have played on the "uber expensive" ones as well . I think that the band sounds better with eDrums even when the eDrums themselves don't sound quite like an acoustic drum.

As an aside, with products like Superior drummer around, I think it is hard to argue that miced acoustic drums sound as good.

Despite any difference in drum sound quality, the band sounds better with even mid-tier eDrums IMO simply because of the lack of stage volume mushing up the mix and burring the vocals.... in most venues that a weekend warrior would play.

I can’t think of any live show I’ve ever seen in any size venue where there was so much bleed from drums or any other instruments in the vocal mics that it impacted the vocal sound FOH…

 

[metropolis_4]

Toontrack has an expansion called brushes, rods, and mallets. It would be interesting to see whether any of what he’s playing in that video could be recreated.

The stuff he plays is really cool but I didn’t really see him do anything that I’d expect to be an issue for sample based drums so long as the library has captured those articulations.

Was there something specific there that you think would be problematic?

Roots SDX – Brushes, Rods & Mallets

www.toontrack.com

I think all of it could be programmed to sound similar, but you couldn’t play it that way on electronic drums.

For example using a felt mallet to mute the head of a tom, or using one brush to push down the head of the snare to alternate between a tighter and looser sound and change pitch.

 

[Orvillain]

No one sings louder than a drum kit so singing technique can't really help you get over the problem if the vocal mic is close to the drums.

It absolutely can when singing into a mic though.

As an aside, with products like Superior drummer around, I think it is hard to argue that miced acoustic drums sound as good.

It is incredibly easy to argue that; go back and read the physics of drums and the difference with sample playback drums that I spoke about before.

Acoustic drums have faaaaaaarrrr more going on that is different from sample based drums, compared to analog valve amplifiers versus amp modellers. Totally different kettle of fish.

I can’t think of any live show I’ve ever seen in any size venue where there was so much bleed from drums or any other instruments in the vocal mics that it impacted the vocal sound FOH…

Yeah, it has rarely been a problem for me either. I honestly think OneEng overblows the importance of this, and I seriously do not know why. I've tried finding out, but I'm none the wiser.

 

[EOengineer]

I think all of it could be programmed to sound similar, but you couldn’t play it that way on electronic drums.

For example using a felt mallet to mute the head of a tom, or using one brush to push down the head of the snare to alternate between a tighter and looser sound and change pitch.

Ah gotcha. Yeah without a doubt it would have to be played differently. I’d expect those to be controlled by cc values in the electronic world, similar to how we handle hihat open/close states.

I do wonder if Roland’s digital snare technology could eventually bridge that gap to pick up tension differences. I hope because there are other neat effects I’d love to see reproduced. I recorded a drummer in a modern classical setting a while back who would bury an elbow in his snare head to simultaneously mute and pitch bend the thing. I thought that was really cool and is def something that would be near impossible to replicate with current technology.

I can’t think of any live show I’ve ever seen in any size venue where there was so much bleed from drums or any other instruments in the vocal mics that it impacted the vocal sound FOH…

Unfortunately this has happened to me, particularly in venues with shallow (front to back) stages. I don’t singularly attribute the problem to acoustic drums, but the overall volume is a contributing factor. I’ve seen other bands struggle in that venue as well. Whether or not we’ve all experienced it, it definitely happens.

 

[DLC86]

No one sings louder than a drum kit so singing technique can't really help you get over the problem if the vocal mic is close to the drums.

That's true only if the mic is equidistant from the drums and from the singer's mouth, but tipically a singer mic is anywhere from 1 to 10 cm away from his/her mouth and the drums, even in the smallest stage, at least a couple meters away.
The difference between 2 m and 2 cm is 40 dB, and add another 20 dB if you go from 2cm to 2mm and another 6 dB if the drums are 4m away instead of 2m (and without taking into consideration occlusion given by the singer's head).

Drums being louder than the singer at the singer's mic is quite unlikely.

 

[Chocol8]

I can’t think of any live show I’ve ever seen in any size venue where there was so much bleed from drums or any other instruments in the vocal mics that it impacted the vocal sound FOH…

No, but I have seen a ton where the instruments were cranked to match the drums and then the vocals through the PA couldn't keep up.

 

[Chocol8]

and without taking into consideration occlusion given by the singer's head

And most singers have pretty big and dense heads!

 

[EOengineer]

That's true only if the mic is equidistant from the drums and from the singer's mouth, but tipically a singer mic is anywhere from 1 to 10 cm away from his/her mouth and the drums, even in the smallest stage, at least a couple meters away.
The difference between 2 m and 2 cm is 40 dB, and add another 20 dB if you go from 2cm to 2mm and another 6 dB if the drums are 4m away instead of 2m (and without taking into consideration occlusion given by the singer's head).

Drums being louder than the singer at the singer's mic is quite unlikely.

If we're invoking the inverse square law, then you also have to factor in the difference in starting SPL between the drums and the unamplified vocalist, don't you?

 

[DLC86]

If we're invoking the inverse square law, then you also have to factor in the difference in starting SPL between the drums and the unamplified vocalist, don't you?

Sure, but you think there's like a 50-60 dB difference between loud drums and a loud singer?
Anyone who has ever recorded a live band knows that vocal bleeds into drums overheads and it is quite audible even if vocals are not amplified, so there can't be that much difference.

 

[EOengineer]

Sure, but you think there's like a 50-60 dB difference between loud drums and a loud singer?
Anyone who has ever recorded a live band knows that vocal bleeds into drums overheads and it is quite audible even if vocals are not amplified, so there can't be that much difference.

Right, but not every vocalist is a loud vocalist. Combine a loud drummer and a quiet vocalist in a venue with some sound reinforcement problems and there is plenty of room for trouble there.

I can't speak for @OneEng and I'm not sure I agree with everything that is being said, but this is definitely an issue I've experienced both on stage and on the other side of the mixer in some smaller venues.

 

[Chocol8]

Likely not 50-60, more like 40, but if the singer is on the quiet side and the drummer hits hard, I think you could realistically crack a 50 db difference.

 

[DLC86]

It seems average for male vocals is around 97 dB SPL and 119 dB SPL for drums, so 22 dB.

Female vocals average at 82 dB, so 37 dB difference in this case

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Average-SPL-of-Female-and-Male-Participants_tbl2_345720339

How Loud Are Drums? A Comprehensive Guide in 2025

How Loud are Drums? Dive deep into the decibel depths of drums, understand how room acoustics affect sound.

thedrumninja.com

 

[Chocol8]

average for male vocals is around 97 dB SPL

That's really loud for a vocal assuming it is measured at a standard 1m. Maybe a screaming vocal, but not an average singer.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Funny, the only band I know of here using e-drums is a band called Loveshack, super successful party band doing mostly corporate gigs.

I gotta say that for me this is quite a good example of why e-drums aren't too great in most applications. In a live setting that big, this particular tune would've sounded much better with a real kit IMO. The snare is downright horrible for my taste.

 

[metropolis_4]

Ah gotcha. Yeah without a doubt it would have to be played differently. I’d expect those to be controlled by cc values in the electronic world, similar to how we handle hihat open/close states.

I do wonder if Roland’s digital snare technology could eventually bridge that gap to pick up tension differences. I hope because there are other neat effects I’d love to see reproduced. I recorded a drummer in a modern classical setting a while back who would bury an elbow in his snare head to simultaneously mute and pitch bend the thing. I thought that was really cool and is def something that would be near impossible to replicate with current technology.


Unfortunately this has happened to me, particularly in venues with shallow (front to back) stages. I don’t singularly attribute the problem to acoustic drums, but the overall volume is a contributing factor. I’ve seen other bands struggle in that venue as well. Whether or not we’ve all experienced it, it definitely happens.

I like the irony that someday in the future maybe we’ll have the technology to approximate something that can easily be done with any 100 year old drums today.


I think it’s very telling that Jojo chooses to use acoustic drums in his electronica band. He can very simply perform something on the spot that would take hours and hours of sampling and programming work just to approximate digitally

 

[metropolis_4]

No, but I have seen a ton where the instruments were cranked to match the drums and then the vocals through the PA couldn't keep up.

Sounds like a terrible drummer who has no business being there

 

[DLC86]

That's really loud for a vocal assuming it is measured at a standard 1m. Maybe a screaming vocal, but not an average singer.

In the pdf it says the SPL meter was placed 30 cm away, so at 1m would be roughly 10 dB lower.
No info about the drums distance though

 

[Sascha Franck]

And just to bask in the glory of acoustic drums being played by someone who “plays drums like they’re in a street fight” as a Youtube commenter put it

I actually think that most kits sound like ass when you hit them that hard. Also renders any "127 velocity zones aren't sufficient" statements meaningless, because these kinda slaughter drummers would be fine with on/off only.

 

[DLC86]

Anyway, I have a rehearsal room in my basement where I play with other people on a weekly basis and, despite it being not too big (5x6 m) I've never had issues with drums or other instruments bleeding into vocal mics... I mean, you can hear the bleed but it's nowhere near as loud as all kinds of voices who have sung in there.

The real issue in that room is being able to turn vocal mics volume high enough without getting uncontrollable feedback.

 

[Blix]

I gotta say that for me this is quite a good example of why e-drums aren't too great in most applications. In a live setting that big, this particular tune would've sounded much better with a real kit IMO. The snare is downright horrible for my taste.

Yeah terrible snare for the song, small and dry.