E-drums: could they be a common thing for small bands gigs?

[EOengineer]

They actually make heads and cymbals that are designed to be quieter, but they’re not very popular.

The heads are getting better. There’s a series from Evans (dBOne) that essentially uses the same mesh heads used on many current electronic kits but adds traditional skin around the striking area. You can tune them, they kinda sound like a drum.

The cymbals are still pretty awful sounding and I’m frankly uncertain and not overly optimistic about progress there. If someone figures that out it solves SO MANY problems.

 

[FuzzyAce]

That's how you move some air!

Someone in the audience screamed "let's hear that brown sound!" The rest is history.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I get what you're saying, but in reality tons of really great albums - released over many years and years - have used sampled drums. Either as a replacement or for stacking purposes. Most people have no idea it is a sample though, and that's the important thing (unless you want it obvious).

Oh don’t get me wrong I totally realize this is the case… I know especially a great deal of the music I I was into during my formative years was supplemented/replaced at best if not totally programmed (I was big into the whole metalcore/deathcore thing in high school lol)

A lot of the making of it sounding good lies in the hands of the engineer as well

 

[EOengineer]

How about those sweet Def Leppard live drum tones tho, amiright??

 

[Chocol8]

The problem with the 95 db bars/clubs isn't the club owners, it is their customers.

 

[Elf]

Off topic but hear me out, drummers could resuscitate the lost art of playing using dynamics?

 

[EOengineer]

The problem with the 95 db bars/clubs isn't the club owners, it is their customers.

I wish this was universally true. In several cases locally here it was noise complaints from surrounding community/businesses.

 

[Chocol8]

it was noise complaints from surrounding community/businesses.

That is a big issue as well, but I think for the most part, younger people going out these days want to chat with each other and then go home at the end of the night not smelling like stale cigarette smoke and without their ears ringing. They are more like my grandparents than us or even my parents generation!

 

[EOengineer]

That is a big issue as well, but I think for the most part, younger people going out these days want to chat with each other and then go home at the end of the night not smelling like stale cigarette smoke and without their ears ringing. They are more like my grandparents than us or even my parents generation!

We’ve failed as a society.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Well… super glad that Denver has no signs of bitching out as a music town I guess

 

[spawnofthesith]

Around here the “young kids “ are largely into loud EDM….. and ironically they get even more stoked when a DJ does a “full band” type of show with acoustic drums….. (See: pretty lights, as a specific example)

 

[deathbyguitar]

Just curious who in this thread is actually using electronic kits in their projects?

I play drums in one of my bands and have been using e-kits live for years, however always triggering Superior Drummer, using my Axe-FX as an audio interface for it. In the other band, our drummer used my kit for a few shows. In both instances we've used e-kits to track drums for studio recordings, capturing the MIDI for use with whatever Toontrack EZX/SDX we end up using.

Wouldn't dare use Roland sounds on a studio recording but Yamaha is getting there with their latest units and I might do so one day just as a proof of concept.

 

[DrewJD82]

I've been using SD3/EZD for a decade now for all my songs, that doesn't do anything to change my mind on using an e-kit live, only the opposite because I know exactly what it's capable of it and where the limitations are.

I spend a week just dialing in velocities to get them sounding as close to realistic as possible and that's not even enough. Drums do not work within the 0-127 framework. At best they get as many samples as they can and make those work for an already-existing system that wasn't made with recreating drum sounds in mind.

And samples laid on top of acoustic drums in the studio, being mixed by guys with decades of years of experience, is very much not the same thing as using an e-kit live.

Can someone post an example of an e-kit being used in a live setting where it doesn't very clearly sound like an e-kit? I was able to post one in a pro setting where it stated my case against the use of them, surely there has to be some kind of evidence they're capable of doing what I'm being told in here.

 

[Blix]

Music is visceral. Even Love Shack covers. E-drums are not.

Funny, the only band I know of here using e-drums is a band called Loveshack, super successful party band doing mostly corporate gigs.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I think by page 12 of this thread we will have solved all the problems for drummers there ever were. You’re welcome, neanderthals!

 

[Chocol8]

the problems for drummers

I think most guitarists would rather solve “the problems WITH drummers” primarily by eliminating the need to have one in your band.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I think most guitarists would rather solve “the problems WITH drummers” primarily by eliminating the need to have one in your band.

You can get a laptop that doesn’t talk back to you for under a grand.

 

[Chocol8]

You can get a laptop that doesn’t talk back to you for under a grand.

Yes, and it doesn’t get drunk and hit on the venue owner’s wife, puke in the van etc. but it also can’t adapt to the other musicians and definitely can’t handle improvisation too well. Yet!

 

[OneEng]

95dB is nothing. That's insane.

I think it is a city ordinance in Ann Arbor .... so not just that one venue.

I disagree.
You can easily record or amplify a drum kit in a very natural way.

I've done that many times with jazz combos.

Jazz is definitely the wrong place for an eDrum.

I get the sarcasm, but like I said, they run their own sound, so yes, they have a trailer for all that equipment. And it's a 5-piece band, so there's always enough people to make that 3 minute trip. Leaving it completely set up saves a ton of time.

My drummer's rig folds up with all the wires and mounts (we remove all the heads and "cymbals" and is a clumsy 1 person carry, or an easy 2 person carry. The eDrums are WAY easier to move and setup than acoustic drums. Not even close.

Then you wouldn't subject them to electronic drums that simply don't sound anything close to realistic to anyone who has ever picked up a drum stick.

A good portion of bands that use acoustic drums can't get the vocals over the mix. The kind of music my band plays and that people come to hear has lots of vocals. I won't subject them to the crap sound of a band like that as it doesn't sound realistic like the album as the mix is totally wacked and no one wants to go out and listen to cymbals and snare all night.

Just curious who in this thread is actually using electronic kits in their projects?

I use them live. I don't drum (seriously, you wouldn't want to hear THAT mess), but over the last 20 years I've gone from TD-10's (cleaned up the sound stage, but they weren't very good sounding themselves), to TD 30's (much better sounding and individual outputs into the mixer for each drum/cymbal) to TD 50's (not as big a step up from the 30's as the 30's were over the 10's, but noticeable for sure). The 10 years prior to that I gigged with acoustic drums.... when I went into the Navy after High School, I found that I had HF hearing loss in my right ear (thanks to the crash cymbal on that side of my head on stage). I really don't miss acoustic kits at all. Really, I don't miss anything at all about them. Ironically, I still have a full drum mic kit. Perhaps I will sell my entire drum mic kit and buy a Line 6 Stadium with it .

The problem with the 95 db bars/clubs isn't the club owners, it is their customers.

The thing was, the bar was FULL (around 200 people) of only a little bit older people (say average age of 30?), and the dance floor was packed from the first song until the last.

Off topic but hear me out, drummers could resuscitate the lost art of playing using dynamics?

LOL. Yes they could. I have heard some really good drummers, and played with a few that had very good dynamic control on acoustic drums BUT ...... it isn't the majority. Not even close.

 

[EOengineer]

Yes, and it doesn’t get drunk and hit on the venue owner’s wife, puke in the van etc. but it also can’t adapt to the other musicians and definitely can’t handle improvisation too well. Yet!

What did the drummer get on his IQ test??

Drool.

I play drums in one of my bands and have been using e-kits live for years, however always triggering Superior Drummer, using my Axe-FX as an audio interface for it. In the other band, our drummer used my kit for a few shows. In both instances we've used e-kits to track drums for studio recordings, capturing the MIDI for use with whatever Toontrack EZX/SDX we end up using.

Wouldn't dare use Roland sounds on a studio recording but Yamaha is getting there with their latest units and I might do so one day just as a proof of concept.

Nice! Yeah I’m still amazed people pay for the Roland modules when something like the EDrumin exists.

I’m primarily using a mixture of Roland and Yamaha triggers and cymbals through an EDrumin 10 module into SD3.

This of course is not where I started. The first version was a converted pacific kit with a Roland TD-9 module running MIDI to EZDrummer.

Truth be told the feel on the converted kit was better than the Roland setup, especially with the full size shells, but the triggers were tough to keep in place and often resulted in having to halt rehearsal to fix something. The newer setup is much better in that regard.

Fun aside, I don’t blame folks who don’t want to go electric. It’s imperfect, expensive, requires patience, lots of attention, and a drummer who is willing to step outside their comfort.

For now I’m lucky enough to be working in a project where we’re able use it where it makes sense, and will be looking for opportunities to push that envelope as innovation happens.

Eventually there will be cheaper alternatives to the newer digital rides and digital snares, more EDrumin competitors, etc.