Drummers?

[Axe]

Any drummers in the fold here?

I suddenly got a hair up my hiney and want to learn drums. I'm thinking about an inexpensive electronic kit I could upgrade down the line and I guess I'm looking for suggestions and recommendations for learning sources.

I finally have room in my home studio for a kit. I am an almost complete beginner tho

 

[Orvillain]

Full disclosure - Alesis are a sister company of the company I work for, which is BFD Drums.

If you want a reasonably inexpensive kit that will play nicely with software, I'd recommend taking a look at the Alesis Nitro Max.

Hook that up to BFD Player (which comes free with it) or EZDrummer3, or Addictive Drums, or any drum software package really, and you'll be able to start to learn to play patterns and go from there.

 

[unix-guy]

One thing I'll say as a non-drummer that's been working with drummers using electronic or hybrid kits for 30+ years: hi-hats, ride and snare are hard to get "right"... Kick and toms are no problem, other cymbals are somewhere in between.

More modern (and expensive) systems seem to do really well these days with snare. The Alesis Strike snare is very sensitive and responds well.

Hi-hats are very fiddly. If you aren't yet a drummer, getting them to go work right could be in impediment to learning.

The best approach we ever used was the addition of low-volume cymbals for hats, ride and 3 crashes. They are very quiet (not much louder than whacking plastic/rubber cymbals).

The cymbals have a built-in mic and run into a small "processing" unit that allows some mixing and EQ options.

Since they are actual cymbals they feel and react as acoustic cymbals would.

 

[metropolis_4]

Drums were my first instrument and primary instrument for a long time.

Electronic drums all suck. I hate them all.

Playing them is like trying to play guitar on one of these:

They are sometimes a necessary evil we have to deal with, but I hesitate to recommend them to anyone just starting out because it will really mess up your feel and you’ll never learn the sounds and techniques that can’t be done on them. You won’t get a good understanding of how real drums respond and sound because they don’t sound or respond anything like real drums.

But if you either have volume restrictions, or want electronic sounds, or need an easy way to record without using mics then they can be useful.

If you just want to mess around and learn enough to pound the drums along with some songs they can be OK for learning, but if you’re wanting to really seriously learn the instrument they are going to limit you

 

[Orvillain]

Drums were my first instrument and primary instrument for a long time.

Electronic drums all suck. I hate them all.

Playing them is like trying to play guitar on one of these:

They are sometimes a necessary evil we have to deal with, but I hesitate to recommend them to anyone just starting out because it will really mess up your feel and you’ll never learn the sounds and techniques that can’t be done on them. You won’t get a good understanding of how real drums respond and sound because they don’t sound or respond anything like real drums.

But if you either have volume restrictions, or want electronic sounds, or need an easy way to record without using mics then they can be useful.

If you just want to mess around and learn enough to pound the drums along with some songs they can be OK for learning, but if you’re wanting to really seriously learn the instrument they are going to limit you

Dude. He's not looking to start a Danny Carey training camp. He wants to start off at Meg White levels, and make some music. No need to muddy the water with your comparatively professional opinions. I agree with you, but none of this stuff is a one-size-fits-all thing.

 

[DrewJD82]

Hell, I’ve played drums for over 20 years and I’m going to grab one of those Alesis Mesh kits. No, e-kits don’t feel like real kits but for learning the basic motor functions of drums, there’s a lot of mental work those first few months of learning independence and you can be hitting cardboard boxes for all it matters at that point.

I just want it so I can do a little less mouse-drumming when I track songs, I’ll still be doing plenty of work with velocities and whatnot in Logic after.

Start watching some drum instructional videos now!

 

[metropolis_4]

Dude. He's not looking to start a Danny Carey training camp. He wants to start off at Meg White levels, and make some music. No need to muddy the water with your comparatively professional opinions. I agree with you, but none of this stuff is a one-size-fits-all thing.

I don’t disagree with you, I didn’t mean to muddy the waters. But he didn’t say exactly what his goals were.

If someone is looking to just casually learn a bit to play along with some songs electronic drums can be fine, but if someone really wants to dig in and seriously learn the instrument I’d have just as hard a time recommending learning on electric drums as I would recommending learning to play guitar on a MIDI guitar.

Besides, for 1/3 the cost of an electric kit you can pick up an acoustic kit that will teach you what drums actually feel and sound like. (Unless volume is an issue)

 

[Axe]

Hell, I’ve played drums for over 20 years and I’m going to grab one of those Alesis Mesh kits. No, e-kits don’t feel like real kits but for learning the basic motor functions of drums, there’s a lot of mental work those first few months of learning independence and you can be hitting cardboard boxes for all it matters at that point.

I just want it so I can do a little less mouse-drumming when I track songs, I’ll still be doing plenty of work with velocities and whatnot in Logic after.

Start watching some drum instructional videos now!

This!!

My goal is to be able to play on my own stuff. If you listen to any of our stuff

Ariel's Attic

Ariel's Attic is: Jenn Hailey - Vocals Bob Ross - Bass, Keyboards Gary Campbell - Guitars Mike Olson - Guitars, Keyboards and Percussion With Mr Stefano Landi as 'The Voice' Born out of a love for music with grand concepts and ambitious arrangements, Ariel's Attic brings together their...

arielsattic1usa.bandcamp.com

I want to do that. I did those drums on Superior and with some with a keyboard controller.

One problem I think I may have is, I'm right handed and left footed. I know this because I used to be able to throw a baseball over 90 mph right handed and I was a place kicker back when and 50+ yds left footed was a breeze. So,, when I air drum my natural instinct is to left foot the kick and right hand the snare :/

I guess I want to get good enough to play my stuff.. Import the midi to my DAW and use the Superior 3 samples therefor fixing the cymbal issues I think?

 

[la szum]

Drums were my first instrument and primary instrument for a long time.

Electronic drums all suck. I hate them all.

Playing them is like trying to play guitar on one of these:

They are sometimes a necessary evil we have to deal with, but I hesitate to recommend them to anyone just starting out because it will really mess up your feel and you’ll never learn the sounds and techniques that can’t be done on them. You won’t get a good understanding of how real drums respond and sound because they don’t sound or respond anything like real drums.

But if you either have volume restrictions, or want electronic sounds, or need an easy way to record without using mics then they can be useful.

If you just want to mess around and learn enough to pound the drums along with some songs they can be OK for learning, but if you’re wanting to really seriously learn the instrument they are going to limit you

I've played and still own Acoustic kits, E-kits, and Hybrid Kits, and I think you are off base here
with this assessment, Met. Time on task is what is the most vital no matter what kind of kit you play.

I have my preferences, too, but acoustic kits are just not possible for a lot of people. So if that
is the only way someone can go then I am all for it.... versus letting the perfect be the enemy of
the good.

I'd actually compare it to playing a nice Piano versus some kind of $1,000 Roland Workstation.
The feel of the keys is different, and you can't always get the same dynamic range.... but you can
still play, make great sounds, and learn a hell of a lot on an electronic simulation of an acoustic
phenomenon.

 

[Axe]

Exactly, I play keyboards as well and the difference between weighted and non weighted keys is substantial..

Again, I will never play live. I just want to be proficient enough to play my own stuff and maybe AA's if we ever get off hiatus.


Also, I'm not a little guy.. 6'5 270.. Throne?

 

[AutomationBias]

If you want a reasonably inexpensive kit that will play nicely with software, I'd recommend taking a look at the Alesis Nitro Max.

That is so freaking cool, particularly the way it folds up. I've been looking for some volume-reasonable way to learn the drums for years, and this looks like the perfect solution.

 

[DrewJD82]

This!!

My goal is to be able to play on my own stuff. If you listen to any of our stuff

Ariel's Attic

Ariel's Attic is: Jenn Hailey - Vocals Bob Ross - Bass, Keyboards Gary Campbell - Guitars Mike Olson - Guitars, Keyboards and Percussion With Mr Stefano Landi as 'The Voice' Born out of a love for music with grand concepts and ambitious arrangements, Ariel's Attic brings together their...

arielsattic1usa.bandcamp.com

I want to do that. I did those drums on Superior and with some with a keyboard controller.

One problem I think I may have is, I'm right handed and left footed. I know this because I used to be able to throw a baseball over 90 mph right handed and I was a place kicker back when and 50+ yds left footed was a breeze. So,, when I air drum my natural instinct is to left foot the kick and right hand the snare :/

I guess I want to get good enough to play my stuff.. Import the midi to my DAW and use the Superior 3 samples therefor fixing the cymbal issues I think?

I think 80%-90% of beginners start off doing the same thing with the foot/hand thing, no worries, the independence stuff kicks in pretty quick. And really, there are no rules. The last few years I'm seeing more and more players using non-traditional setups or mixing things up so they're almost never crossing the sticks when they play. The longer I actually sat behind a kit, the less I thought about dominant limbs, especially feet, between double bass stuff that starts on the non-dominant foot or hi-hat patterns that aren't synced with the kick, you start getting used to scratching your head while pattin' yer belly.

 

[la szum]

The weak links in E-drums will always be Hi-Hats and Cymbals.... also getting a virtual Snare to
mimic the dynamism of a nice acoustic snare is a massive compromise.

I'd recommend not cheaping out on pedals. A nice kick pedal can make a massive difference
versus some of what comes with a cheap E-kit.

 

[Axe]

Guess I need to sell a guitar, or two.. Off to Classifieds I go

 

[metropolis_4]

So,, when I air drum my natural instinct is to left foot the kick and right hand the snare :/

If that’s your natural instinct you might try starting out with the drums set up “left handed”. Bass drum on your left, use your right foot to control high hat.

I've played and still own Acoustic kits, E-kits, and Hybrid Kits, and I think you are off base here
with this assessment, Met. Time on task is what is the most vital no matter what kind of kit you play.

I have my preferences, too, but acoustic kits are just not possible for a lot of people. So if that
is the only way someone can go then I am all for it.... versus letting the perfect be the enemy of
the good.

I'd actually compare it to playing a nice Piano versus some kind of $1,000 Roland Workstation.
The feel of the keys is different, and you can't always get the same dynamic range.... but you can
still play, make great sounds, and learn a hell of a lot on an electronic simulation of an acoustic
phenomenon.

I completely agree that the best kit is the one you’ll play the most. I get the volume thing, if volume considerations will make you play an electric kit more, then that is the way to go.

E kits are fine for casual playing along with some songs, I didn’t know exactly what OP had in mind.

Personally, I don’t agree that it’s like an electric piano though. It’s not just the feel and dynamic range. There are tons of techniques and sounds that are simply not possible to do on electric drums. They are very limiting compared to acoustic drums. And if volume isn’t an issue acoustic drums are significantly cheaper too for someone just wanting to casually play for fun.

How limiting they are depends on styles of music you want to play.

And obviously I am way too opinionated about drums!

 

[Bruce]

I don’t disagree with you, I didn’t mean to muddy the waters. But he didn’t say exactly what his goals were.

If someone is looking to just casually learn a bit to play along with some songs electronic drums can be fine, but if someone really wants to dig in and seriously learn the instrument I’d have just as hard a time recommending learning on electric drums as I would recommending learning to play guitar on a MIDI guitar.

Besides, for 1/3 the cost of an electric kit you can pick up an acoustic kit that will teach you what drums actually feel and sound like. (Unless volume is an issue)

To further this, you kind of have to know what an acoustic drum and cymbal feels and sounds like in order to properly replicate that in an E kit or software. It took me a long time of learning things about drums I otherwise didnt care about so I can convincingly replicate drum parts. The same should hold true for someone learning to play. How can you know if they E articulations are any good if you have no experience with those actual drum articulations?

 

[la szum]

And obviously I am way too opinionated about drums!

 

[Deadpan]

Not sure of the compatibility today but an Alesis Trigger I/O and any local kit you can find may work. I would recommend Easy Drummer on PC to go with it.

For me the main thing is the kick pedal. I need a double and of all I found the Iron Cobra fits for me.

 

[metropolis_4]

I actually had a jazz teacher once who threw his shoe at me!

What’s that from? I’ll have to watch it

 

[AutomationBias]

I actually had a jazz teacher once who threw his shoe at me!

What’s that from? I’ll have to watch it

Whiplash! Great film.