Does guitar jam well with a piano?

[BedroomMusic]

If I needed to have 3 piece band, it would be drums , guitar and piano. I would trade piano for bass anytime in band settings.

 

[bukowski]

I'd recommend that she find other classical musicians to play with, perhaps a string quartet. There are lots and lots of non-improvising musicians who love to play. I play in two big bands. Most of the horn players in both of the bands don't improvise. At least half a dozen of those non-improvisors are career music educators, mostly band directors. And they enjoy playing in the bands (and read and play excellent, BTW). My sister - who is in her late 60s - still takes piano lessons, performs concerts/recitals, and attends week-long piano clinics. IMO she's a little too intense in trying to execute flawlessly and would sound better (and enjoy playing more) if she lightened up just a little.

Understood. My sister and I have never jammed. She would be completely out of her element playing jazz standards, blues, rock 'n' roll, funk, or pop. And, although I do practice some classical pieces, I'd be entirely out of my league trying to play a piece with her.

Agreed.

Oddly enough, I taught myself minor pentatonic while learning the guitar solo in "Louie, Louie" by ear.

I then realized that the guitar solos in lots of other tunes used the same scale structure, and I started fooling around with improvisation using the scale. I had no idea that it had a name. I learned what is now called "CAGED" in similar fashion: I watched a guitar-playing HS classmate play a "G" shape in a song and realized that all the "cowboy" chord shapes could be made movable by barring with the first finger. This was 1968; I first saw the CAGED acronym around ca. 2000. BTW, here's that same guitar player today:

Great stuff ! Its Interesting to read from someone that's been playing since 1968 ---I hope your fingers are holding up well, I sometimes wonder how long I have left to play... (born around the time you learned cowboy chord shapes)...

For me, learning triad shapes (and I also discovered that you can use chord shapes to map chord notes) was mind blowing. My point it, that improvised playing made me eager to learn this stuff. Learning songs is good, but to me its just not that much fun.. (It can be a chore)... If I only learned songs, I probably wouldn't have as much interest..

I'm in full agreement. Unfortunately, it wasn't a part of my early music education. When I changed a couple notes in "Cockels and Muissels" to match a recording we had (Burl Ives), my violin teacher said, "never do that," which played a pretty big role in my ultimate loss of interest in continuing music lessons. My guitar path was the opposite of that - I didn't learn to read music on guitar for more than a decade after I began - and there were no teachers I knew of in my small town who could teach improvisational concepts.

Dam, not all teachers are good, that's a shame. Bad teacher !

FWIW, neither am I. That clip was the first example I found on YT of a big band playing straight blues. Of the 400+ charts in the book of one of the big bands I play in, a substantial portion are 12-bar blues. One of the charts the other band played at a recent concert is "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy," a 12-bar blues.

While I respect what Robben Ford does as a player, I personally wouldn't look to a player like him for lessons. I've never tried online lessons anyway. I could see some significant limitations in that format, and there is an abundance of world-class guitarists who are also excellent teachers here in the DFW area.

Sorry to reply late, I've been running around and wanted to spend time reading your response. I really appreciate it !

 

[jay mitchell]

Its Interesting to read from someone that's been playing since 1968 ---I hope your fingers are holding up well,

I have relatively few problems with my fretting hand. Some stretches I used to use on a regular basis have become uncomfortable in the last few years. I began working some time ago to minimize the pressure I exert to fret notes, and I think that effort has helped me avoid joint problems.

I sometimes wonder how long I have left to play...

You can adapt your fingering and phrasing to accommodate limited range of joint motion, and you can go to lighter strings to reduce required pressure. So far, I've managed to continue using .013s on my archtop and .011s on my Strat, but the option to go lighter is always there.

My point it, that improvised playing made me eager to learn this stuff. Learning songs is good, but to me its just not that much fun..

You can do both: learn songs and use their forms - the changes and arrangements - as the basis for improvisation. FWIW, improvisation is not limited to playing solos. You can improvise while comping, an underappreciated skill set.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I've played with a few pianists, mostly organ players. The guy I play with now uses a Nord through an active QSC.

I've done some work for a singer who played guitar as well as an electric organ. I did a couple of gigs with a cover band who had a really cool Hammond player who would play through a Marshall half Stack. We played the Madrone Art Bar in SF that had a Leslie cabinet that was a blast to experience.

My wife likes to tell people she fell for me after we had met during a party at a mutual friends house when I was checking out the instruments she owned including a classical guitar and a baby grand piano.
The host allowed me to play the guitar while she played the piano. She started playing a somber chord structure she had written and after figuring out it was in the key of A minor I improvised reactively to her playing, figured out her chords and had fun for who knows how long with my future wife standing there gushing. And idiot me, I obviously have no idea at the time.

 

[Jynx]

 

[Jazz Padd]

This is an interesting thread, and I'm enjoying reading all the responses!

I agree, that having fun together is important, maybe even the reason for playing music. I also agree that guitar and piano can often mesh very well, with listening to and / or responding to one another.

From my limited experience, playing mostly in a jamming context, a few examples leapt to mind.

On occasion, I jam with a pianist who studied classical and can play pieces well. They learned the solfege system, while I rely mostly on the ABC system, so at first it was difficult just jamming as they were dependent on reading a score, and to move away from a score I couldn't call out notes or chords or whatever, because I don't know the solfege system. It was kind of humbling for both of us. Then we found that outside of their classical technique, they had a great ear and were very responsive and listened well. So we abandoned the scores and notes and names and syllables altogether. We had two jams, entirely improvisatory: The "black key" one and the "white key" one. There was just one rule, play only black keys or white keys. It sometimes turns out like an ambient thing, which was more fun when I added a touch of echo onto my guitar, but other times we'd get a groove going. No known songs, but somehow the tonality of the black keys reminds of pentatonic based melodies, while the white keys slipped into a kind of minor modal thing. Both were lotsa fun!

My favorite music to jam on are the old jazz standards, but that take a different kind of playing, both have to at least know the melody and how to read the changes. Another pianist, who knew very little about jazz, turned out to have a real flair for it. They could sight read the melody easier, better than me in some cases, but couldn't make sense of chord symbols like Am7 or E7, etc. So I'd write the chord tones for each on the same staff as the melody and said, in this measure any of these notes, melody or the chord tones, are fine. Just listen and follow along and let's see what happens. Using that approach, we were able to jam on Summertime and Autumn Leaves, both also very much fun.

On occasion I go to open jam sessions, where one never knows what to expect. Some times, the pianist is very busy and doesn't listen much, so in that case I take a very minimalist approach to their rather maximalist playing. It's on me to adjust, but that spontaneity is part of the fun for me, and we manage to make some music together, along with bass and drums and sometimes horns. When more experienced pianists are on stage, we have more equal roles and play off of each other, for that the advice offered in previous posts is excellent, listening and stay out of each other's way.

It's kind of endless, really, jamming or making spontaneous music, whether songs or just playing around. Whatever you end up doing with your son, have some fun and I wish you all the very best!

 

[Dave Lewis]

Steely Dan have done quite well with piano & guitar.

 

[FuzzyAce]

That last piece was very nice.

Metheny with Lyle Mays is another combo that worked very well.
Of course many others in jazz, blues, fusion, prog.

 

[jay mitchell]

There was just one rule, play only black keys or white keys.

That's a new one on me. Kinda asymmetric.

somehow the tonality of the black keys reminds of pentatonic based melodies,

As well it should. The black keys form the Eb minor/ Gb major pentatonic scale.

while the white keys slipped into a kind of minor modal thing. Both were lotsa fun!

There's the asymmetry. The white keys contain all the modes of C major, as well as three major/minor pentatonic pairs: CM/Am, FM/Dm, and GM/Em.

My favorite music to jam on are the old jazz standards,

I share your preference. I enjoy playing newer music as well.

but that take a different kind of playing, both have to at least know the melody and how to read the changes. Another pianist, who knew very little about jazz, turned out to have a real flair for it. They could sight read the melody easier, better than me in some cases, but couldn't make sense of chord symbols like Am7 or E7, etc.

Yep. Reading lead sheets poses a challenge for lots of classical pianists.

So I'd write the chord tones for each on the same staff as the melody and said, in this measure any of these notes, melody or the chord tones, are fine. Just listen and follow along and let's see what happens. Using that approach, we were able to jam on Summertime and Autumn Leaves, both also very much fun.

That sounds like fun. How is the pianist's swing feel? Lots of classical musicians are uncomfortable swinging eight notes and tend to play them straight.

On occasion I go to open jam sessions, where one never knows what to expect. Some times, the pianist is very busy and doesn't listen much,

BTDT. One option you always have in a jam is to lay out. When the piano player fills the available harmonic space entirely, that may be the best option.

so in that case I take a very minimalist approach to their rather maximalist playing.

One of the best piano players I know - who is also an accomplished arranger/composer with recording credits - tells guitar players up front that he doesn't want them to comp behind his solos. OTOH, he listens very well and will adjust his chord voicings to mesh with the guitar player when they are both comping. Sometimes, he'll lay out completely and let the guitar player comp.

It's kind of endless, really, jamming or making spontaneous music, whether songs or just playing around.

My preference for "jamming" is to play with/over some kind of harmonic/rhythmic structure. That generally requires some common knowledge and vocabulary among the jammers. IMO making music in a group requires humility on everyone's part. You need to have respect for the music and for each other and a commitment to making a cohesive ensemble sound.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Some times, the pianist is very busy and doesn't listen much, so in that case I take a very minimalist approach to their rather maximalist playing.

This was one of the biggest challenges I had playing with a pianist in a band. But that's where arrangement and working out the details makes a difference, although improv/jamming you don't have that luxury so it's better to think in a minimalist way initially. A song can very quickly become a "piano" song because of the space it can take up, but of course that's also why it's the most popular solo instrument.