Darkglass Anagram - NAM profile player & multieffects unit

[2dor]

I was meaning that they shouldn´t be feeding NAM... since they´ve got their own capturing tech, which is what they should be empowering.

Of course, I don´t see NAM as something NDSP will ever support. And that´s why I think it´s interesting about this Darkglass unit, in case Doug was in the shadows.

Well, Korg must have seen an opportunity in the NAM Player thing so if they green-lighted it good for them - I do hope the unit delivers & is a success (eventually). Really depends on how well it delivers and the way they actually price it when launched.

 

[DLC86]

Darkglass anagram: Dark Slags

 

[Audio Transformer]

Rumors :
It’s a Darkglass product called Anagram.
Darkglass is owned by Korg, (previously by Castro, NDSP co founder)
The product is developed by Mod Audio (also owned by Korg)
It will be able to load at least 2 standard NAM natively (no conversion needed)
It won’t be able to train nam (but maybe in a cloud based service at some point)
Price will be probably 999€ in Europe. US price is now tariff dependent.
Yes Leo has been chosen for the reason he’s one of the biggest YouTube channel promoting and demonstrating guitar amp modelers AND profilers. He’s a trusted YouTuber in guitar community.
DSP is an Arm Quad Cortex®-A76 , more powerful than NDSP one and also featuring a NPU for nam native real time support.
Touch screen is not confirmed
USB audio will be day one

 

[BenIfin]

I was meaning that they shouldn´t be feeding NAM... since they´ve got their own capturing tech, which is what they should be empowering.

Of course, I don´t see NAM as something NDSP will ever support. And that´s why I think it´s interesting about this Darkglass unit, in case Doug was in the shadows.

No reason or anything to stop NDSP "licensing" some Amp / EFX algorithms to Korg ... more money for NDSP ... money saved by Korg in -not- making their own

 

[Sedaxel]

No reason or anything to stop NDSP "licensing" some Amp / EFX algorithms to Korg ... more money for NDSP ... money saved by Korg in -not- making their own

Yeah, I guess that´s all business engineering. They´ll know what is more convenient for their companies.

But if you own a company that´s fighting in the "capturing war"... The last thing you want is to give the "free enemy" a chance to expand.

 

[laxu]

But if you own a company that´s fighting in the "capturing war"... The last thing you want is to give the "free enemy" a chance to expand.

Except there is no war. Tonex, Kemper and NDSP use proprietary capture formats with large enough pool of captures to choose from that people aren't asking for e.g NAM support.

It's a different situation when you're not yet an established player.

 

[Lysander]

Yes Leo has been chosen for the reason he’s one of the biggest YouTube channel promoting and demonstrating guitar amp modelers AND profilers. He’s a trusted YouTuber in guitar community.

I like Leo, so please don't read this the wrong way - but he's objectively far from one of the "biggest YouTube channels" in the guitar world. Which is why this whole thing was so surprising.

Unless he was not supposed to leak the device at all, but i presume the video would be long gone if that were the case.

 

[2dor]

I like Leo, so please don't read this the wrong way - but he's objectively far from one of the "biggest YouTube channels" in the guitar world. Which is why this whole thing was so surprising.

Unless he was not supposed to leak the device at all, but i presume the video would be long gone if that were the case.

It may not be as obvious to many but he's been pretty hooked on the whole NAM thing since the beginings & does have a following of folks who share the same interest. So if someone was trying to push a unit which can play NAM profiles with no compromise to quality, it would make sense for them to run it by Leo - some of his followers may very well be the first customers. Just my 2 cents.
I don't think his channel being small is any reason to get avoided; all you need is 1 break at something and his content is pretty good, at least when it comes to this NAM stuff / profiling.

 

[Sedaxel]

Except there is no war. Tonex, Kemper and NDSP use proprietary capture formats with large enough pool of captures to choose from that people aren't asking for e.g NAM support.

It's a different situation when you're not yet an established player.

I actually think that "capturing companies", Kemper/NDSP/ToneX, see NAM as a threat. And it´s for a reason. We all know the quality is even better in NAM than their propietary tech. If I owned one of those brands, I´d try to keep NAM far away from business. So maybe not a war... but certainly some kind of a cold war, so to speak. I don´t think they´re happy with NAM player pedals dropping here and there.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

I actually think that "capturing companies", Kemper/NDSP/ToneX, see NAM as a threat. And it´s for a reason. We all know the quality is even better in NAM than their propietary tech. If I owned one of those brands, I´d try to keep NAM far away from business. So maybe not a war... but certainly some kind of a cold war, so to speak. I don´t think they´re happy with NAM player pedals dropping here and there.

It's called competition.

 

[laxu]

I actually think that "capturing companies", Kemper/NDSP/ToneX, see NAM as a threat. And it´s for a reason. We all know the quality is even better in NAM than their propietary tech. If I owned one of those brands, I´d try to keep NAM far away from business. So maybe not a war... but certainly some kind of a cold war, so to speak. I don´t think they´re happy with NAM player pedals dropping here and there.

Only if those NAM players are in any way comparable. Tonex doesn't worry much about e.g Dimehead because it's more expensive, Kemper and NDSP are similarly offering more all-in-one solutions.

I think NDSP needs to worry about the Nano Cortex, when other brands are offering cheaper, full-blown multifx units in not much larger form factors.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I actually think that "capturing companies", Kemper/NDSP/ToneX, see NAM as a threat. And it´s for a reason. We all know the quality is even better in NAM than their propietary tech. If I owned one of those brands, I´d try to keep NAM far away from business. So maybe not a war... but certainly some kind of a cold war, so to speak. I don´t think they´re happy with NAM player pedals dropping here and there.

I think eventually there will 1 or 2 standards, all hardware manufacturers will be compliant with…like .wav, IRs, mp3, midi protocols. Not cause they want to, but cause they have to. Atm they can maybe keep up that their capture method is the most sexy..but that’s simply not sustainable…cause they are not.

Cheap nam players will take marketshare of newcomers to the tech, once they upgrade to more pro offerings (cause of other reasons then just the captures), a large chunk will stay with NAM, also cause that database of captures will grow if more and more hardware supports it.

Capture tech became a commidity on the day sub 200,- devices offered a decent method…it’s no longer a buying reason for premium units. Top brands will focus their marketing on other stuff, like efx, hardware, mature architecture and utilities.

 

[Chocol8]

I don’t think any of these companies are currently all that threatened by NAM.

As far as I can tell, Tonex has been eating NAM’s lunch since the $399 OG Tonex Player hit the market and that accelerated significantly with the release of the $179 Tonex One. Hardware still matters more than that last tiny bit of a null test and they have a winning combination of sound quality and hardware price that will keep them relevant for a while. Their software issues have been holding them back, but IK is making strides in that department and the new editor is a big leap forward in usability which can’t hurt. NAM has software issues of its own, especially for a non-techy newbie.

NDSP and Kemper have higher priced hardware with higher capabilities. Kemper profile quality is getting pretty dated, but the ecosystem has legs and an established fan base. QC does the Kemper thing better but with their own baggage, but the baggage is their main problem, not NAM. A simple NAM player doesn’t replace a Kemper Stage or Quad Cortex, and if a vendor wants to add in the effects and other capabilities at top tier quality, what will the lead time and price point be? How well will they be able to support the product with updates?

NDSP might be a little worried about free NAM vs their pluggin business, which is a valid concern, but the plugins still appeal to a different segment of the laptop player market.

I have been hearing about NAM in the context of it being about to disrupt the market since it came out, and so far that has yet to materialize. If anything, professional support for NAM seems to have waned a bit, and that suggests lack of demand/sales. Until new cheap hardware or something else gives it a boost in market share and online attention, I don’t see it moving too many needles.

 

[ian_dissonance]

NAM itself is free, it will be a hardware company that leverages it to “upset the market”. The biggest issue I see right now is running it at high quality requires a lot of computational resources, so getting it 1:1 in hardware that is at a price point people will buy is the issue. Honestly the more I see of profiles/capturing the happier I am to not live in the world of trying to emulate a specific amp or tone. Talk about a race to nowhere.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I don’t think any of these companies are currently all that threatened by NAM.

As far as I can tell, Tonex has been eating NAM’s lunch since the $399 OG Tonex Player hit the market and that accelerated significantly with the release of the $179 Tonex One. Hardware still matters more than that last tiny bit of a null test and they have a winning combination of sound quality and hardware price that will keep them relevant for a while. Their software issues have been holding them back, but IK is making strides in that department and the new editor is a big leap forward in usability which can’t hurt. NAM has software issues of its own, especially for a non-techy newbie.

NDSP and Kemper have higher priced hardware with higher capabilities. Kemper profile quality is getting pretty dated, but the ecosystem has legs and an established fan base. QC does the Kemper thing better but with their own baggage, but the baggage is their main problem, not NAM. A simple NAM player doesn’t replace a Kemper Stage or Quad Cortex, and if a vendor wants to add in the effects and other capabilities at top tier quality, what will the lead time and price point be? How well will they be able to support the product with updates?

NDSP might be a little worried about free NAM vs their pluggin business, which is a valid concern, but the plugins still appeal to a different segment of the laptop player market.

I have been hearing about NAM in the context of it being about to disrupt the market since it came out, and so far that has yet to materialize. If anything, professional support for NAM seems to have waned a bit, and that suggests lack of demand/sales. Until new cheap hardware or something else gives it a boost in market share and online attention, I don’t see it moving too many needles.

If the buying reason/differenting qualities for Kempers/QCs is something else then their profiling…which I 100% agree with…they have nothing to loose, and only something to win by including NAM: users that choose explicitly for NAM, and users with their own set of NAM files they gathered at their entry of the tech on the cheap units that are hitting the market.

 

[Chocol8]

NAM itself is free, it will be a hardware company that leverages it to “upset the market”. The biggest issue I see right now is running it at high quality requires a lot of computational resources, so getting it 1:1 in hardware that is at a price point people will buy is the issue.

Exactly! The idea that NAM is slightly more accurate than Tonex doesn’t carry much water if the hardware is only playing lower quality NAM files or conversions. So, a NAM player has to have significantly more processing power to equal, let alone beat the competition.

If you pull that off, you still have to deal with being more expensive than Tonex or having less features than Kemper/QC. Add those features and the cost climbs more and now you are also competing with Helix and Fractal. It is a tough market, and who wants to invest a bunch of R&D money when they don’t control the technology?

 

[Chocol8]

If the buying reason/differenting qualities for Kempers/QCs is something else then their profiling…which I 100% agree with…they have nothing to loose, and only something to win by including NAM: users that choose explicitly for NAM, and users with their own set of NAM files they gathered at their entry of the tech on the cheap units that are hitting the market.

I don't think it is that simple. Are there REALLY enough people who would buy a top tier product because it added NAM support to pay for the R&D to include NAM AND also justify ongoing R&D to maintain support for a format you have no control over? If I was responsible for allocating development resources, money and manpower, I would be extremely cautious of your assumptions.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I don't think it is that simple. Are there REALLY enough people who would buy a top tier product because it added NAM support to pay for the R&D to include NAM AND also justify ongoing R&D to maintain support for a format you have no control over? If I was responsible for allocating development resources, money and manpower, I would be extremely cautious of your assumptions.

Offcourse it’s just my hypothese…but im willing to bet a good bottle on it

Risk of using opensource might be a thing..but…this is about use of a file format. If that format is “written in stone”, and it’s used (as is today) by multiple platforms…It may well be perfectly manageable.

Idnk R&D costs for something like this, but the fact that is possible in 100,- units may tell us something. Offcourse quality of those implementations I don’t know.
As for adding marketshare cause of it…offcourse I have nothing but my own perspective..I don’t think it would interest current users of Kempers/QC/Tonex…for those brands it’s about connecting to a new gateway into the tech for new users: supercheap stuff with NAM as a beginner. For the modeling only brands its a connection to users like me who (captures = must) might consider their brand cause of it. Personaly, i would probably switch to fractal if they had capture tech.

 

[bikescene]

I hope this device can take advantage of the calibration metadata and make somehow sense of the varying input gains of NAM captures in a user friendly way.

I’m not sure if any of the existing hardware already does this, but getting the input right would go a long way in getting more people to hop on board.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Offcourse it’s just my hypothese…but im willing to bet a good bottle on it

Risk of using opensource might be a thing..but…this is about use of a file format. If that format is “written in stone”, and it’s used (as is today) by multiple platforms…It may well be perfectly manageable.

Idnk R&D costs for something like this, but the fact that is possible in 100,- units may tell us something. Offcourse quality of those implementations I don’t know.
As for adding marketshare cause of it…offcourse I have nothing but my own perspective..I don’t think it would interest current users of Kempers/QC/Tonex…for those brands it’s about connecting to a new gateway into the tech for new users: supercheap stuff with NAM as a beginner. For the modeling only brands its a connection to users like me who (captures = must) might consider their brand cause of it. Personaly, i would probably switch to fractal if they had capture tech.

Are you capturing your own amps?