Concerning CLR Discovery

[Zentman]

It's on the rear panel next to the power connector.

Generally, yes.

It's on the rear panel next to the power connector.

Generally, yes.

No numbers at all on the rear panel unless you meant internally near the power connector. I do thank you for your time.

 

[jay mitchell]

Per the OP, this all began as a result of my offer to diagnose and repair two CLRs, because the owner could not get support from Atomic. He loves how they sound and just wants them to work, and I'm helping him out.

The facts are exactly as I have laid them out here. I've not made any accusation of intent, nor will I do so. I have no idea how many units might be affected by this issue. I know specifically of one. Having discovered the power supply/power amp discrepancy, it only made sense to let other owners know of the possibility, how to identify the issue, and how to remedy it if it is present.

I have not characterized the speaker as unreliable; in fact, I made it a point in another post here to state that nobody who isn't privy to sales and service data can ever say how reliable it is.

 

[jay mitchell]

No numbers at all on the rear panel unless you meant internally near the power connector.

The serial number is on the outside of the panel, immediately adjacent to the power connector.

 

[Richard_G]

I'm not available to comment on this at length ATM but I am nearly certain that this is an isolated incident. For sanity, I just pulled 5 new CLRs out of their boxes and the poweramps were all unquestionably the new design. If any CLR MKII owner has has any doubt that they have the the right modules in their amp, please send an email to support and you will get immediate attention. I will be shocked if this turns out to me more than a one off (or at the least VERY limited issue).

We have only had 1 new CLR return in well over 6 months and that was not for anything related to the poweramp.

As someone pointed out, the 1st generation ran hot. This this was deemed acceptable by all the members on the design team. We still have a massive number of original CLRs out out in real world working fine - some doing more than 15 years of service. The new design, which should absolutely be incorporated on all MKIIs, runs cooler and is more efficient.

I'm not sure why but it seems like there is at least one person on this thread who seems quite motivated to make this into something.

I have an original active CLR wedge bought from Atomic back in 2013 (pre-Neo, pre-MkII). Do @atomicamps recommend that I upgrade my CLR with this power supply change?

 

[Zentman]

The serial number is on the outside of the panel, immediately adjacent to the power connector.

So I looked at some pics online of
multiple units and they all had serials right where you indicated. That being said neither of mine does. Maybe because they were replaced and they may have used pre-marked inventory. No big deal, I was just curious. Thanks again for your time.

 

[atomicamps]

I have an original active CLR wedge bought from Atomic back in 2013 (pre-Neo, pre-MkII). Do @atomicamps recommend that I upgrade my CLR with this power supply change?

There is no need to update the power supply or anything in the power amp package unless it isn't working - especially if it's been chugging along fine for 17 years. The main difference is the unit runs hotter.

Atomic's current policy is to repair original CLRs and MKIIs with their respective parts. We might consider doing an upgrade or offering the option to purchase a backup power amp in the future.

 

[TravisG406]

All of mine are good - love these speakers

 

[Zentman]

All of mine are good - love these speakers

Ive never had anything that sounded better.

 

[Richard_G]

(...) Making the change will improve long-term reliability by greatly reducing thermal stress on every electronic component inside. If you have a pre-MKII CLR, you can upgrade it with this power supply change. (...)

I have an original active CLR wedge. Am I correct in assuming that you highly recommend upgrading it with this power supply change?

Yes.

(...) As someone pointed out, the 1st generation ran hot. This this was deemed acceptable by all the members on the design team. We still have a massive number of original CLRs out out in real world working fine - some doing more than 15 years of service. The new design, which should absolutely be incorporated on all MKIIs, runs cooler and is more efficient. (...)

I have an original active CLR wedge bought from Atomic back in 2013 (pre-Neo, pre-MkII). Do @atomicamps recommend that I upgrade my CLR with this power supply change?

There is no need to update the power supply or anything in the power amp package unless it isn't working - especially if it's been chugging along fine for 17 years. The main difference is the unit runs hotter.

Atomic's current policy is to repair original CLRs and MKIIs with their respective parts. We might consider doing an upgrade or offering the option to purchase a backup power amp in the future.

I think the difference in advice here is quite interesting.

I love my CLR and I'm a bit scared that something may happen to it down the road. So I'm still quite tempted to try to get the upgraded power supply, if it's an easy fix I can get done locally (or even myself).

(@atomicamps; for what it's worth, I've had my CLR for approximately 12 years (since 2013), not 17 years.)

 

[jay mitchell]

for what it's worth, I've had my CLR for approximately 12 years (since 2013), not 17 years.)

The first units shipped in early 2013. There were none in the wild prior to that.

My recommendation is just that; it's not a warning. It is a statistical fact that MTBF of electronic components is reduced by high temperatures and extreme thermal cycling. That doesn't mean you'll definitely have problems if you do nothing, or that you definitely won't have problems if you make the change. The swap is an easy DIY: you remove the module from the speaker, disconnect three connectors on the PS, unscrew and remove it, then reverse the process to install the new one. Several owners have already done the swap and are pleased with the results.

 

[Richard_G]

I decided to go for this upgrade now and will keep the original power supply as a spare part should it ever be needed, so an order is now placed.

Thanks for the info, @jay mitchell, I really appreciate it!

 

[Zentman]

I decided to go for this upgrade now and will keep the original power supply as a spare part should it ever be needed, so an order is now placed.

Thanks for the info, @jay mitchell, I really appreciate it!

Where did you order from?

 

[Richard_G]

I used the link Jay provided in the OP:

(…) The power supply is a Hypex SMPS400A180. You can buy them here: SMPS400A180. (…j

 

[Zentman]

I used the link Jay provided in the OP:

I did see that but I'm in the USA so I was hoping you found one here that wasn't 200 plus bucks. Thought I'd get it as a back up.

I'm sure I'll be fine as is. They both run cool

 

[KingsXJJ]

FNDR "FRFR" FFS.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I do love my Atomic Ampli-FireBox MKII’s. Nice utility boxes at a great price. Firmware seems mature. I haven’t had an issue yet. But I am sorry if folks are being left hanging. That would just suck if true.

 

[Richard_G]

I did see that but I'm in the USA so I was hoping you found one here that wasn't 200 plus bucks. Thought I'd get it as a back up.

I'm sure I'll be fine as is. They both run cool

I see. I’m in Norway. A bit expensive to get it here as well (for something I don’t HAVE to have, since my CLR is working as-is).

But I’d kick myself if something were to happen to my CLR related to this down the road if I had the chance to prevent it. And now I will have the original as a spare, as well.

Ended up convincing myself to prioritize this instead of another fuzz pedal I was considering - but didn’t really need.

 

[AlbertA]

I had my CLRs in a corner gathering dust (Mark I Cabs, with smps400a400 and UcD250LP amp modules).

I ended up sourcing the smps400a180 from here: https://www.soundimports.eu/en/hypex-smps400a180.html instead of hypex directly as they had cheaper and faster shipping (UPS express).

I replaced the power supply on one of the my CLRs and left the other as is and left them idling for about a day. I did a super quick temperature reading (using one of those gun infrared thermometers) - ambient temperature is 75F (~24C), the temperature at the heatsink of the CLR with the smps400a180 power supply is 120F (~49C) and the other one is at 138.5F (~59C).

If I wanted an even lower temperature, I would need to replace the amp modules with UcD180LPs?

Is it possible to swap say only the HF driver amp module to a UcD180LP and leave the other two bridged amp modules for LF as is? Or do they all have to match?

I have to replace one HF driver amp module anyway on one of my CLRs (I confirmed by swapping a working module from the other CLR).

Any good sources for the amp modules? I've found some on eBay - I may buy one from there.

 

[jay mitchell]

If I wanted an even lower temperature, I would need to replace the amp modules with UcD180LPs?

The cause of the heat generated at idle is the voltage drop across a linear voltage regulator in each power amp module. Reducing the rail voltages - which changing to the SMPS400a180 does - reduces that drop. I'm pretty sure that it won't make any difference which amp modules you have after you've made the change, but I haven't checked that yet. When I complete the repairs to the units I have on hand, I'll be able to make a direct comparison, and I'll post the results here. That'll be awhile, as I've got a day gig that has to take priority.

Is it possible to swap say only the HF driver amp module to a UcD180LP and leave the other two bridged amp modules for LF as is? Or do they all have to match?

Once you've changed to the 180 power supply, you can use either power amp module. I would recommend that the bridged units match, but the LF and HF units don't need to. They have identical voltage gain, and the maximum acoustic power is limited by the DSP programming in every case.

I have to replace one HF driver amp module anyway on one of my CLRs (I confirmed by swapping a working module from the other CLR).

Just don't use a 180 amp module with the earlier power SMPS400a400 supply. The rail voltages are well beyond the maximums for the amp module.

Any good sources for the amp modules? I've found some on eBay - I may buy one from there.

Here's one: Hypex UCD180LP,

Here's another: UCD180LP.

 

[AlbertA]

The cause of the heat generated at idle is the voltage drop across a linear voltage regulator in each power amp module. Reducing the rail voltages - which changing to the SMPS400a180 does - reduces that drop. I'm pretty sure that it won't make any difference which amp modules you have after you've made the change, but I haven't checked that yet. When I complete the repairs to the units I have on hand, I'll be able to make a direct comparison, and I'll post the results here. That'll be awhile, as I've got a day gig that has to take priority.

I see.

This got me curious so I looked at the documentation here: UcD250LP_OEM/UcD180LP_OEM which mentions an internal regulator for VDR in the absence of an optional external VDR - For the UcD250LP, seems to be a 15V VDR and for the UcD180LP a 12V VDR.

I suppose then with the SMPS400a400 power supply feeding a UcD250LP module, the regulator is producing a 15V output with a 62V unregulated rail and with a SMPS400a180 power supply into a UcD250LP module, that would be 42V rail => 15V, which explains the drop in heat.

Once you've changed to the 180 power supply, you can use either power amp module. I would recommend that the bridged units match, but the LF and HF units don't need to. They have identical voltage gain, and the maximum acoustic power is limited by the DSP programming in every case.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Just don't use a 180 amp module with the earlier power SMPS400a400 supply. The rail voltages are well beyond the maximums for the amp module.

Ack.

Here's one: Hypex UCD180LP,

Here's another: UCD180LP.

Thanks for the info. I'll order a couple and see how it goes.