Clones and copies?

[SillyOctpuss]

In this day and age, there is no reason to pay more than $50 on the classic overdrive pedal circuits.

How about if you want a custom pedal with custom artwork? No way of doing that under $50. Or if you just want it built by a person using through hole components which can be repaired vs smd by a machine which goes to landfill if it breaks. Can't do that under $50 either.

I can think of quite a few other reasons tbh. Totally fine if you want to buy a smd pedal made in China for that amount of money but not everyone wants that.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Why do we always apply this so heavily to our guitar gear? The amount of guitar gear I buy is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than the amount of home electronic crap, personal device crap, furniture, clothes, food (I'm DEFINITELY not going to be sticking to only stuff I can source locally in New England in January), etc....

Good point.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

How about if you want a custom pedal with custom artwork? No way of doing that under $50. Or if you just want it built by a person using through hole components which can be repaired vs smd by a machine which goes to landfill if it breaks. Can't do that under $50 either.

I can think of quite a few other reasons tbh. Totally fine if you want to buy a smd pedal made in China for that amount of money but not everyone wants that.

Right. But those aren't copies at that point. If someone really wants a through-hole, custom -painted tube screamer and is willing to pay for it, and they know what they're paying for, go for it. But if someone just wants a tube screamer...I see no reason why anyone should feel like they are making a morally compromised decision in buying a $25 Berhinger copy.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I see no reason why anyone should feel like they are making a morally compromised decision in buying a $25 Berhinger copy.

Totally agree. I won't buy from behringer but would never stop anyone else doing it. My bigger problem is with outright fakes though. Pedals which have the look, fonts, names of the pedal they've cloned and the original manufacturer on it. Same as chibsons IMO.

 

[la szum]

If I have learned one thing living my entire life in a Capitalist Society where the
one True Religion is $$$ and profit and making a buck, and just getting by, and
selling your soul to pay the man, it is that nothing is sacred.

Ok, except the bottom line.

Theft, pillage, and plunder is the Way!

 

[gearJunkie]

Theft, pillage, and plunder is the Way!

 

[BahamaDada]

Anyone come out with a Klonic yet? Please say yes.

Dre dropped the Klonic in '92 IIRC.

Very interesting thread here. I can only speak for myself, but to me there is no clearly visible line to cross. Or not to cross. There's a distinctive feeling of "No, that's just not right" to me. Like buying that Freedman from Amazon. Already had it in my shopping cart ready to hit "order now", but couldn't get myself to it. There was just a bad gut feeling to it.

Same for me with the new Behringer Klon clone. That's just too close for comfort.

Now if a 1 man company does this in his free time selling it on classifieds... who cares. But in such a BIG way. Not my thing.

 

[paisleywookiee]

What do you think of things like this;
View attachment 43544
There is no particular reason that this can’t be identical to the original for a lot less.
But ;
Intellectual Property.
Nobody makes their own components so in theory a copy can be exactly the same if researched properly.
Same layout same parts.
I personally only buy original’s unless they are out of production and/or a stupid pice.

You can't copyright circuits, but this kind of shit irks me. And no, I don't like the Centura and stuff like that either, because even if it sounds good, they're capitalizing on likeness to the original.

 

[Eagle]

I think Behringer Klon is the most offensive because it has absolutely no integrity whatsoever but it’s still legal. But I don’t mind the Centura because it was first offered as a kit and only when the original was long gone.
“It’s a fine line between cleaver and stupid “.

 

[paisleywookiee]

How do you feel that non of EB hardware or electronics is made in the USA and the wood is not from the USA either. Axe 3 is also 99% Chinese in components. I agree about the copyright protection period for intellectual property.

There's no way to adequately answer this, without it getting overtly political.

 

[Eagle]

There's no way to adequately answer this, without it getting overtly political.

Yes good point.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Yes good point.

I mean, the gist is 30-40 years ago, maybe more, rich people decided they wanted to make more money, and off-shored everything. Part of it could possibly be attributed to environmental factors, which I do support. But now that everything's a global economy, and yes, China does a lot of things better in that area, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
My Japanese car is 4% more "American-made" than a Chevy Blazer.

 

[paisleywookiee]

P.S. Behringer and Warm Audio are two sides of the same coin, and can both fuck off.

 

[BahamaDada]

P.S. Behringer and Warm Audio are two sides of the same coin, and can both fuck off.

Yeah, what's that Warm Audio thing? Are they just ripping of others? I mean... "ODD"?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Yeah, what's that Warm Audio thing? Are they just ripping of others? I mean... "ODD"?

They're ripping off trade dress, which IMO is horseshit. Borrow the circuit, do something interest, design a cutesy box of YOUR OWN, and be on your way. But replicating the original and calling it the Centura (or whatever the fuck theirs is called) is lame.

 

[Chocol8]

You can't copyright circuits,

You can patent them if they are original. The old Fender schematics listed the patent numbers on them. Of course they are all expired not and any patents for typical analog guitar circuits are expired or would have been if they had been patented.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You can patent them if they are original. The old Fender schematics listed the patent numbers on them. Of course they are all expired not and any patents for typical analog guitar circuits are expired or would have been if they had been patented.

Interesting, good to know. I'm obviously not a lawyer of any sort. At what point would a Klon have been original, and if so did Finnegan patent it, I wonder? Is there any example of any pedal's circuit design being patented? Genuinely curious. I know there was the EHX POG/Mooer drama, but I believe that was copyrighted software code, not a patented circuit design.

 

[Chocol8]

I mean, the gist is 30-40 years ago, maybe more, rich people decided they wanted to make more money, and off-shored everything.

No, what happened was middle class consumers decided to mostly buy cheaper options whenever they had a choice and companies either off shored or went out of business.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Vertex Comes Clean

From the link below...... "The Axis Wah is a rebranded BBE Ben Wah. The following things were changed: LED, Bottom Plate, Rubber Footpad, control knob, faceplate, and Wah pot on the NOS version only (changed to a different 100K S-taper pot). The silk screening was removed from the enclosures as...

www.lespaulforum.com

I don’t know what happened in the end but.

In the end Landau stomped his foot the Veryex clown went away, let the ripples smooth came back with his rig doctor schtick.

 

[Chocol8]

Interesting, good to know. I'm obviously not a lawyer of any sort. At what point would a Klon have been original, and if so did Finnegan patent it, I wonder? Is there any example of any pedal's circuit design being patented? Genuinely curious. I know there was the EHX POG/Mooer drama, but I believe that was copyrighted software code, not a patented circuit design.

I don’t think there was enough original to the circuit to patent it, but even if he had, that patent would have run out in 2014 putting anything original into public domain.