Clean Amp Sim Plugins: Noir Tones vs Scuffham S-Gear

[Jim Soloway]

As I promised @sashimi ...

This is an A/B test featuring a single 30 second piece of music processed by both the Sonatura Noir Tones amp plugin and Scuffham's S-Gear plugin. There are four versions in all: one each of both systems running in standard mode and then one with the internal speakers and mic muted and the signal processed by a third party IR loader (the Lancaster Pulse).

Everything else (reverb & eq) is identical for all four examples.

You can decide for yourselves which you prefer.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Both sound quite good, and the Noir gets closer with the IR loader. But they're still pretty different. Probably because the models themselves are pretty different, no?

It's interesting that Noir made the choice to not have a built-in IR loader.

 

[Jim Soloway]

Both sound quite good, and the Noir gets closer with the IR loader. But they're still pretty different. Probably because the models themselves are pretty different, no?

It's interesting that Noir made the choice to not have a built-in IR loader.

I thought it was pretty interesting how much closer they got with the IR loader. They're running the same IRs and settings so maybe it says something about how much an amp sound really comes from the speakers.

I have no idea why they didn't add the ability to load IR's but I do know they did have third party IR loaders in mind when they added the mute switch. I actually prefer it that way. I have a few really good IR loaders and they add a lot of options in addition to just being able to load an IR. Most of them have some EQ functions, stereo/mono/dual mono modes etc. It's been how I've been adding IR's to S-Gear for years.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'll have to try out Pulse again. I see they've got a new version:

Pulse - The only Free IR Loader for Pro Tools

Pulse is the perfect IR loader to go alongside our extensive library of impulse responses. Using PULSE as your IR loader means you can spend less time sorting through piles of IR’s and can get back to whats important; the MIX.

lancasteraudio.com

 

[Jim Soloway]

I'll have to try out Pulse again. I see they've got a new version:

Pulse - The only Free IR Loader for Pro Tools

Pulse is the perfect IR loader to go alongside our extensive library of impulse responses. Using PULSE as your IR loader means you can spend less time sorting through piles of IR’s and can get back to whats important; the MIX.

lancasteraudio.com

Thanks. It looks interesting. Once I find something that works, I have a tendency to use it forever. Sometimes that's just inertia at work.

 

[sashimi]

As I promised @sashimi ...

This is an A/B test featuring a single 30 second piece of music processed by both the Sonatura Noir Tones amp plugin and Scuffham's S-Gear plugin. There are four versions in all: one each of both systems running in standard mode and then one with the internal speakers and mic muted and the signal processed by a third party IR loader (the Lancaster Pulse).

Everything else (reverb & eq) is identical for all four examples.

You can decide for yourselves which you prefer.

Beautiful playing. Both sound great to me, with maybe a slight edge to noir tones, nice fat and warm cleans, it really makes it sound like you’re playing a hollow body, but didn’t you mention earlier in the other thread that it’s not?

I’ll have to give it a try.

I thought it was pretty interesting how much closer they got with the IR loader. They're running the same IRs and settings so maybe it says something about how much an amp sound really comes from the speakers.

I have no idea why they didn't add the ability to load IR's but I do know they did have third party IR loaders in mind when they added the mute switch. I actually prefer it that way. I have a few really good IR loaders and they add a lot of options in addition to just being able to load an IR. Most of them have some EQ functions, stereo/mono/dual mono modes etc. It's been how I've been adding IR's to S-Gear for years.

Yeah the IR is definitely a huge factor. Interesting that noir tones doesn’t have an IR loader.. but I assume it has some built in IRs or cab sims? Or do they just expect you to pair it with an IR loader in your DAW?

 

[Jim Soloway]

Beautiful playing. Both sound great to me, with maybe a slight edge to noir tones, nice fat and warm cleans, it really makes it sound like you’re playing a hollow body, but didn’t you mention earlier in the other thread that it’s not?

I’ll have to give it a try.


Yeah the IR is definitely a huge factor. Interesting that noir tones doesn’t have an IR loader.. but I assume it has some built in IRs or cab sims? Or do they just expect you to pair it with an IR loader in your DAW?

Thanks. They give you a cab sim as part of the amp definition and since they are recreating a vintage amp, they try to be faithful to that amp. The real user control of the tone comes from the mic suite and mic placement and it really does give you a lot of control. I could probably live with that first sound with no difficulty and that's just done with the tool that it provides.

This one is done with a different guitar. It's one that we built and it's been my number one since about 2010. It's a chambered thinline style with no sound holes. It also has wider than normal spacing and a really chunky neck. It's the only one like it that we ever built.

 

[Cactusprick]

I have always been a big fan of Scuffham. But on this one I preferred Noir Tones much more.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Scuffham doesn't sound great to me here, kind of boxy and flat. All context dependent and personal preference but I think the other sim suits the playing better.

 

[Jarick]

I couldn't hear too much difference outside the Noir having a lot more low end. I don't know much about that really dark jazz tone though.

Speaking of Scuffham, it's interesting to see how much love Dann Huff is giving it in all his videos. No surprise because it's 15 years old I think. Still, for pure clean tones with effects, it's great!

 

[Jim Soloway]

I'll have to try out Pulse again. I see they've got a new version:

Pulse - The only Free IR Loader for Pro Tools

Pulse is the perfect IR loader to go alongside our extensive library of impulse responses. Using PULSE as your IR loader means you can spend less time sorting through piles of IR’s and can get back to whats important; the MIX.

lancasteraudio.com

I downloaded it yesterday. It's a huge change. You can load 4 IRs at a time and switch between any combination of them. It also has an EQ graph that shows exactly what the IRs are doing. Really nice tool for free. It even comes with few IRs.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I downloaded it yesterday. It's a huge change. You can load 4 IRs at a time and switch between any combination of them. It also has an EQ graph that shows exactly what the IRs are doing. Really nice tool for free. It even comes with few IRs.

Cool, I'll have to give it a go for sure.

 

[László]

They're both nice. I think the Scuffham sounds more like a real amplifier; there's more (or at least different) upper-mid harmonic content, especially in the attack portion of the note. That may, or may not be consistent with what you'd like to hear.

Also there was a lot of woofiness in the Noir bit.

Beautiful playing, btw.

 

[banned]

Both sound great!

 

[Sascha Franck]

I pretty much prefer the Noir here. Sounds more "open" and the acoustic properties of the guitar seem to shine through better. There's more "wood" in the sound, so to say.

 

[Orvillain]

Boy that's a lot of wrong notes.

<ducks>

 

[Orvillain]

But no, in all seriousness, I didn't like the sound of Scuffham here. Too boxy and flat and lifeless. Noir sounds better.

 

[sashimi]

I wonder if the s-gear tweed amp set clean couldn’t get closer to the vintage jazz amp sound, or a different IR, or if the mids just need to be tweaked. But yeah I agree noir sounded better.

 

[Jim Soloway]

I wonder if the s-gear tweed amp set clean couldn’t get closer to the vintage jazz amp sound, or a different IR, or if the mids just need to be tweaked. But yeah I agree noir sounded better.

I love the sound of the Tweed amp in S-Gear but it has a much higher noise floor and I've never been able to get past that when I'm recording. But all of this brings me to why I bonded with Noir Tones so quickly.

I'm a great believer in the paradox of choice which says that when we are given too many options to choose from, we tend to end up less satisfied than if we had fewer options to choose from. For all of its well noted graphical short comings, Noir Tones overcomes that paradox by offering a limited number of options and instant access to all of the controls on a single screen. I was able to dial in my Noir Tones patches in just a few minutes, partly because there are so few choices to make. That's especially important in an interactive environment where everything effects everything. That's one of the things I don't like about modeling in general: in most systems, it's so easy to fall into rabbit holes only to decide that you've made it worse rather than better.