Celestion Speaker History (partial)

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Was digging through my 317GB music stash folder full of everything and anything and found this snippet written by someone on some board some long time ago... I use it for my own reference when tone cloning.

A Celestion G12 chronology might be of help in sorting things out.

WWII- Celestion makes a 12" alnico magnet public address speaker for Royal Navy warships.

1950's- A 12" with alnico magnet called the G12 is developed from the early 12" for musical instrument amps, and quickly becomes associated with Vox amps.

Early 1960's- Marshall uses the G12, but it can't be painted blue.

About 1965- Due to the high cost of alnico, a medium weight ceramic magnet version is developed. This is the first of what will be called the Greenbacks. It is rated at 20 watts and is less sensitive (loud) than the alnicos, and with a crunchier sound. The alnicos developed 100 db's at 1 meter distance with a 1 watt sine wave, while the ceramic developed 96 db's.

About 1967 -A heavy ceramic magnet version is made available. The heavy magnet version is called the G12H, and the medium weight ceramic version is called the G12M. The first run of G12H's are rated at 25 watts. It's as loud as the Alnicos.

1968- The G12M is up rated to 25 watts and 97 db's. It becomes the standard Marshall loudspeaker for the next ten years. The G12H is up rated to 30 watts and becomes the heavy duty option for Marshall amps/cabs for the next ten years. It is strongly associated with Hendrix.

1970-Celestion moves their plant from Surrey to Suffolk, and the speakers now carry the name Rola Celestion on the sticker. Previous Celestions, or pre-Rola, are believed to sound better.

1970's- The G12M25 and G12H30 are continued, often with green magnet covers on the back. Grey, orange, and black back covers are also used. The black covers are more often used on the G12H30.

1978- The G12M25 is replaced with the G12M65 (aka the 65's). The 65 is very simlar to the 25 in sound overall, but has a tighter bass, and a later breakup. At about the same time the G12H30 is replaced by the G12H80, but it doesn't sound at all like the G12H30.

Early 1980's-The beloved 65 is replaced by the hated G12M70, and then by the not much better, but better than the G12M70's, G12T75 by about 1985. The T magnet is the modern eqivilant to the M magnet. A whole range of modern G12 models proliferate, but people want Celestion to "bring back the Greenbacks".

About 1986- Marshall wants a Vintage alnico sounding speaker for their Studio-15, but a true alnico is too expensive. This becomes the Vintage 30. Due to the clamor to bring back the G12H30; it's called the Vintage 30 in a clever marketing ploy. The Vintage 30 doesn't sound like the G12H, but is actually a ceramic alternative to the old alnico G12's, although it does use the H magnet and bass cone.

About 1989-The 70's version G12M25 green back is re-issued.

About 1991- The G12 Alnico Blue is re-issued.

About 1997- A G12H30 version is finally re-issued.

About 2003- Most production is moved to China. UK production retains the Alnico Blue and the Heritage versions of the G12M and G12H speakers. The Heritage G12M's are the G12M20 from 1965, and the G12-65 versions. The G12H30 Heritage is supposed to be the pre-rola version using the 55 hrz cone.

 

[jazzarian]

I'm partial to the Neo Creambacks myself. The old G12-65 another favorite.

 

[laxu]

Speakers are interesting to me because there seem to be so many small details that can make them sound quite different. It's like a material science thing.

Celestion seems to have so many variations of both the Greenback and the V30, where it's difficult to figure out what is good and what is not without just trying them out.

I remember I was at this guitar show in Helsinki and tried a Bluetone 4x10 with 10" UK made Greenbacks through one of their 25W Plexi amps. I was blown away by the sound and after that the cab lived rent free in my head for months until I decided to just ask them to sell it to me. I'm just super happy with the way that cab sounds with any Marshall style amp.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I have a Marshall 1960A with G12-K85 16 ohms in it. Any idea where they fit in the timeline?

I also have four G12T-75s and I don’t understand the hatred for them. They sound really nice.

 

[laxu]

I also have four G12T-75s and I don’t understand the hatred for them. They sound really nice.

I don't like how those sound except with amps that already have a lot of mids.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I don't like how those sound except with amps that already have a lot of mids.

Please continue.

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

I have a Marshall 1960A with G12-K85 16 ohms in it. Any idea where they fit in the timeline?

I also have four G12T-75s and I don’t understand the hatred for them. They sound really nice.

I have a pair of G12-K85s in a pair of Seymour Duncan 1x12s (the "Convertible" amp lineup).

My old research on these:

It was introduced in the late 1970's, featuring a Kapton voice coil bobbin (Kapton was a new material, enabling higher power ratings than previous speakers)

the "K" in the nomenclature probably stands for "Kapton".

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Further info I just dug up:

Found the email from Celestion:

"TheG12K-85 was a popular speaker for many years and dropped out of the cataloguea couple of years ago. However, we never stopped making it so wehave put it back into the new catalogue but now call it the G12K-100. Itwas introduced in the late 1970's, featuring a Kapton voice coil bobbin(Kapton was a new material, enabling higher power ratings than previousspeakers). This came to define the 'Modern Rock' sound of the 80's, asthe same coil was widely used in the G12T-75, the 4x12 mainstay from thenuntil today. The G12K-85 is exactly as the G12T-75, but with a larger (50oz)ceramic magnet, and a more focused field to give tight control, punch anddefinition, with a little more bite and attack than other speakers.
Themodern sound is characterised by a slightly compressed overall sound, withoutthe high treble 'sparkle' of the vintage speakers, but with a more forward,crunchy mid range. The G12K-100 has good clean headroom before the conebreak up takes over, but also responds well to all gain levels from mildcrunch to death metal. It also works well with multi effect units.
It has a sensitivity around 99-100dB (1W @ 1m), a response from 85-5500Hzand a power handling of 100W RMS. It's a great all rounder, especiallysuited to rock lead.

Bestregards,
The Doctor"

 

[PLX]

I also have four G12T-75s and I don’t understand the hatred for them. They sound really nice.

The vented ones have a different sound from non-vented (1985~86?)

 

[Achilles]

Speakers are interesting to me because there seem to be so many small details that can make them sound quite different.

Indeed.

 

[HomespunEffects]

The vented ones have a different sound from non-vented (1985~86?)

I have unvented.

 

[laxu]

Please continue.

I find the T75s pretty scooped sounding, so to combat that, an amp with a lot of mids helps. Marshalls work pretty well, but I imagine say a Mesa Mark series might work too.

 

[Cirrus]

I'm really happy with my old silver Alnicos. Pulsonic cones ftw.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I find the T75s pretty scooped sounding, so to combat that, an amp with a lot of mids helps. Marshalls work pretty well, but I imagine say a Mesa Mark series might work too.

I think they’ve got to be in the right cabinet and a 1960A ain’t it. The B is better but an oversized 2x12 is where it’s at.

I’m running one G12T-75 in my 2x12 right now. I took one out to make it a 16 ohm cabinet.

 

[laxu]

I think they’ve got to be in the right cabinet and a 1960A ain’t it. The B is better but an oversized 2x12 is where it’s at.

I’m running one G12T-75 in my 2x12 right now. I took one out to make it a 16 ohm cabinet.

Yeah I imagine a 2x12 might sound more mid-forward too so that might work as well.

 

[AutomationBias]

1970-Celestion moves their plant from Surrey to Suffolk, and the speakers now carry the name Rola Celestion on the sticker. Previous Celestions, or pre-Rola, are believed to sound better.

They changed the sticker in '71 (for greenbacks, anyway), but what matters is whether it has a Pulsonic cone. You'll find Pulsonics up to '73 (and some 74-75 Creambacks, using leftover stock). The Pulsonic factory apparently burned down in '73 and they weren't able to make them exactly the same way after that. Later cones also sound great, but different. The RIC cones are totally underrated (I had a 4x12 with graybacks), and late 70s rock is almost entirely black backs with Kurt Mueller cones.