Breaking away from Neutron (Mixing process and plugs)

[Whizzinby]

So I think for the amateur mixes I do, I have been reasonably happy going heavy with letting the Borg (Izotope) do the heavy lifting mixing and mastering. With time I’ve gotten fairly comfortable knowing when to overrule a lot of the AI based eq moves and just injecting ProQ3 into the fold myself. But I will say I’ve never been overly happy with my distorted tones. Some better than others, but id like to move away from using Neutron and doing at least all of the mixing myself. (Letting Ozone land the plane mastering, at least until I get my mix chops down.

Anyways just curious what you guys are using to mix your stuff, for guitars, bass, drums. (Luckily I can’t sing so don’t have to worry about vocals )

Anyways so guitars, seems like a combo of an SSL channel strip for eq and a CLA-3A comp is enough for guitars? (I have ProQ3 which I can use for EQ too) Is there really much more needed there, if so what do you use and what is your chain?

Bass. Seems kinda similar, SSL channel strip, ProQ3, I’ve seen people using an 1176 comp for bass? Also I’ve noticed a lot of people just using DI with like a SansAmp for some grit. Is using the DI like that more to blend or as a primary tone?

Drums. So, I’ve been a total lazy ass and everything thing I’ve ever recorded I just sent from GGD to a single bus in Logic. GGD has a turbo knob which can add processing so I’ve normally just dimed it on everything, and mixed a single bus, no eq, no automation. I took the time this weekend to get a template setup routing most of everything into an individual bus into Logic. (Snare, Tom’s, kick, cymbal) I think I need to expand that and give the hat, ride, overheads, room mics their own fader. I think just separating them out and being able to use a channel strips on them individually (while leaving the turbo option dimed) will at least move me in the right direction, and then maybe use an SSL Master Bus comp on the main drum bus. Drums seem like a total nightmare.

Anyway, just curious what your go-to process and chain is for each instrument. I’ve kind of stayed ignorant to all this while letting Watson run the show.

I have a handful of other plugs, namely Gulfoss, Soothe2, Devil Loc, which may come more in handy now, then trying to force use them on top of all the Neutron processing etc.

 

[TJontheRoad]

I sub to Plugin Alliance. Tons of mix and mastering tools. Still also use stock Logic plugs for some things. Key is to explore and experiment.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

[…] Anyways just curious what you guys are using to mix your stuff, for guitars, bass, drums. […]

The most important tool in each channel strip is the volume control.

 

[DrewJD82]

I still end up using Waves SSLChannel on every track unless I need an RTA for some reason, and then I’ll use the Q3. I think because I’m so used to that UI and I got used to the frequency adjustments on it so it’s kinda second nature to me, had I started with the Q3 first, it’d surely be the other way around.

I still don’t use anything outside of Waves compressors, the CLA 76, 2A, 3A and SSLBuss Comp.

RBass is a great plugin but needs to be used sparingly, a little goes a LONG fucking way and just using it on one track can ruin a whole mix.

3/4’s the time for delays I still use Logic’s Stereo Delay because it’s great. Been using a TC reverb for room verbs but Waves Abbey Roads Plates is pretty slick as well.

 

[Whizzinby]

I still end up using Waves SSLChannel on every track unless I need an RTA for some reason, and then I’ll use the Q3. I think because I’m so used to that UI and I got used to the frequency adjustments on it so it’s kinda second nature to me, had I started with the Q3 first, it’d surely be the other way around.

I still don’t use anything outside of Waves compressors, the CLA 76, 2A, 3A and SSLBuss Comp.

RBass is a great plugin but needs to be used sparingly, a little goes a LONG fucking way and just using it on one track can ruin a whole mix.

3/4’s the time for delays I still use Logic’s Stereo Delay because it’s great. Been using a TC reverb for room verbs but Waves Abbey Roads Plates is pretty slick as well.

Dude I’m pretty much looking at all those Wave comps and the SSL channel strips you mentioned. Affordable unlike most of the bougie shit I’ve paid the ransom for.

Do you have a specific comp you go to for guitars vs bass vs drums etc. Do you stack any of those? I’ve outsourced so much thought to Neutron I’m not really sure what to use. (Though I have noticed how they stack the individual plugs within the suite, so I may try to mimic that, but with my own plugs and ear)

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The best tip for (higher gain) guitars is try to do nothing at all. Maybe even process your drums a bit and reference some commercial stuff before you dial your guitar tones in. If you’re using IR’s it’s quite good to be able to adjust mic position to tailor the top end to what you’re doing.

If I do EQ, it’s basically only ever a shelf boost around 10/12k using either API/SSL/Helios type curves. Occasionally I’ll dip around 3k to 4k but I’ll try to leave it alone and only do it if the song is begging me to.

If guitars need compression, it’s typically more of a musical choice than a mixing one - maybe for a cleaner sound that needs to be flattened out. SOMETIMES I’ll use RenAxx which is like a simplified 1176 (which is already dead simple) just to pin things into place.

Bass I tend to compress a lot, most songs and genres don’t really want an overly dynamic bass and especially when it’s bass guitar, it’ll have more dynamics than intended. I quite like faster attack and slower release just to hold it in place. Ren Axx works great again if it still needs pinning down.

Drums, I’ve gradually turned to doing less and less. It’s so much about choosing the right drums and tunings. All my compression is on parallels, usually one parallel of just shells that’s more for attack, and 2 parallels that have shells+OH and rooms that i’ll use to bring up the overall level (so faster attack and release to groove to the tempo of the song).

I’ll usually try and clip the snare a bit on the way in, I prefer that for levelling things and also to get some fatness without things getting too transienty. Kick and snare I’ll EQ a bit, again something broad like Neve or SSL EQ. IMO the worst thing you can do with drums is overwork the wrong sound into something else - it won’t end up how you want, it’ll just be a weird version of the wrong drums. Better to spend more time choosing the right drums and tunings and finding a balance within the mics. The rest should be quite instructive on what to do from there. Dont be afraid to add samples or try different things if the mix isn’t working, it’s probably an arrangement or production flaw rather than a mix problem.

 

[DrewJD82]

Dude I’m pretty much looking at all those Wave comps and the SSL channel strips you mentioned. Affordable unlike most of the bougie shit I’ve paid the ransom for.

Do you have a specific comp you go to for guitars vs bass vs drums etc. Do you stack any of those? I’ve outsourced so much thought to Neutron I’m not really sure what to use. (Though I have noticed how they stack the individual plugs within the suite, so I may try to mimic that, but with my own plugs and ear)

I never compress distorted guitars and if I’m doing anything with clean guitars, they’re generally compressed to fuck and back in the Fractal already. Bass I compress the shit out of, though. I think I’m normally using the 3A for that?

Two plug-ins I didn’t mention; Waves DB160 Compressor (I use for drums) and CLA-Unplugged I use for acoustic stuff. The CLA stuff is pretty slick just because they handle compression and effects at the same time and they’re very “if it ain’t broken” for me, even if I do some other EQ after the plug-in, the plug-in handles all the compression stuff. CLA-Drums is pretty great for giving you an example of what you’re going for. Almost all my songs start off with a bunch of CLA stuff doing the brunt of the work and when I go to mix I’ll use individual plug-ins to fine tune things if I’m feeling adventurous.

I have stacked compressors on stuff like snares, one controlling the initial attack and a slower one to get some body resonating, I’ve probably done it with kicks, toms and acoustics, too.

Speaking from experience, I think it’s far more imperative to stick with a couple basic compressors and really learn what they’re doing before buying a bunch of them. They can be tricky to understand what they do in an overall mix before you even start figuring out what different flavors of them offer. A lot of my usage of them is familiarity, I’ve been using the CLA-76 for so long for vocals that I just go to it every time because I know it works, without fully understanding why a 76 works so well with vocals.

 

[SeeD]

Ahh, so you would like to make music harder hehe
I love having Neutron and the Mastering plug. Makes my plugin mixes much better, as I`m no enginer/mixer.
I learn a lot for the AI stuff, I can see what it`s doing and that is why I stick with that.

Ps: You are brave!

 

[Whizzinby]

Ahh, so you would like to make music harder hehe
I love having Neutron and the Mastering plug. Makes my plugin mixes much better, as I`m no enginer/mixer.
I learn a lot for the AI stuff, I can see what it`s doing and that is why I stick with that.

Ps: You are brave!

Its very likely I’ve watched entirely too many Hardcore Music Studio videos and will retreat to safer waters after a couple weeks.

At least I can say I tried. lol

 

[la szum]

I applaud the effort, and the intention behind it. It reads as being very wise. It just seems
to make common sense that the more we know about the basics and fundamentals (how things
work, and why) the more fluent we will become in our endeavours. Knowledge is power.

 

[aldunk]

@Whizzinby Have you tried using Neutron for mixing without using the AI side of it? Some of the tools in it are good enough for mixing manually.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I've been using Ozone 10 for the stuff I post here. I build my track with standard plugins as needed then insert Ozone on the master bus and sometimes as the last plug-in for the drum/bass bus, or rhtm guit bus, even an effects bus. I usually start with some kind of Ozone preset, either just to enhance what's already there or to give more drastic effects with eq and spatial balance. You get decent results quickly but it's easy to get carried away and kill the dynamics by pushing too hard.
I don't work off a standard song template (probably should lol) with plugin inserts predetermined -- each song is its own thing and nothing is off limits, although I have some standard plugins I reach for a lot. Mainly Studio One 6 plugins, quite a few from Plugin Alliance, Waves and others.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I use Fabfilter EQ, Comp, and Saturn all the time. I use their reverb from time to time.

Delays from Helix Native. Native on Bass and Guitar too.

Midi drums are Addictive Drums 2 with each track bussed out to individual tracks in Reaper for processing and mixing. I use some of the AD2 effects modules and add some effects of my own especially side chain compression for snare and kick and Saturn on overheads.

Side chain compressing with Fabfilter Comp. Izotope Maximizer on the master bus.

That's about it, really. I learned to mix "properly" in school and never relied on automatic anything. I hadn't heard of AI mix assisting until I got here.