Boss GT-1000 (and possibly other things Boss...)

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, I thought this thing (and perhaps the GX units as well, as they share a whole lot of their DNA) deserves its own thread to share experiences, tips'n'tricks and what not.

For a start, I would just like to share some kind of first impressions (bought one 10 days ago, so I'm already quite familiar, first gig with it will be Saturday).
Lots of subjective stuff but also some plain observations. And a lot of ranting (very, very deservedly so...).

Pros:

- Great all around hardware, from all I can tell. But that's what Boss is known for, their units are made to last. Every single thing feels super solid. Exception: The screen. Apparently great stage visibility but editing mode is horrible, things really look blurred/pixeled. I absolutely don't mind monochrome but I do expect more definition. Otherwise, compared to, say, the HX family, this is a different hardware story (sorry Line 6, but you absolutely need to learn this lesson). Click-encoders feel reliable, finger-switches have very defined clickpoints, footswitches are quality ones, you can instantly tell. LED stripe visibility is excellent (another thing Line 6 needs to learn).

- Hardware quality cont.:
Super low device latency. Might not bother anyone using just a single unit, but as soon as you start using FX loops, possibly with nested further digital devices, this might become crucial.
Amazingly low latency as an audio interface. On my M3 Macbook Air I'm getting 5.9ms of (physically measured!) roundtrip latency at 44.1kHz and 32 samples buffersize. That's the best value I have ever seen for any modeler's onboard interface. Defenitely good enough to at least fool around with software amp sims and what not. For comparison (sorry for hitting you again, Line 6): The HX series comes with 15.9ms of latency at the same settings. Which is incredibly bad. Most others seem to be somewhat inbetween.

- Global blocks. In the Boss universe, it's called the "Stompbox" feature, which is sort of misleading IMHO. But otherwise, it does exactly what I expected. Save/load a Stombox preset and the block will be edit-able across all presets using the same block and Stompbox preset. That's absolutely fantastic and possibly the #1 or #2 reason for me to buy the unit.

- Form factor. Extremely subjective but the other #1 or #2 reason for me to buy the unit. It's just the goldilocks size. Small and light enough to fit in a backpack, a suitcase or even in one half of a double gigbag, still a sufficient amount of onboard switches and an EXP pedal (which I like on a "one size fits all" unit).

- Pretty decent FX. At least IMO (I should note that I'm not using much FX, typically just delays and reverbs). No, they're not oustanding but more like bread'n'butter, but for my taste, they're supplying instant gratification. Switch them on at their defaults and most will sound just as what you'd expect already. Twist the typical parameters to taste and to accomodate the situation, done.

Unfortunately, at least so far that was it about the pros.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Cons:

- No idea where to start, but the amps are an important thing for sure.
WTF? If this is the best Boss could come up with when others, such as FAS, Line 6, Atomic, Headrush, Strymon and whomelse already pretty much nailed amp modeling (yes, to varying degrees, but you get the gist), then they just don't deserve to be named among them at all. By now even the cheaper offerings such as NUX, Mooer and even Donner, etc. mop the floor with Boss' modeling.
The main reason for this dilemma isn't even necessarily the overall sound of their amps but their dynamics. Each and every (!) amp model is compressing way too much. The only useful one not doing it all too much would be the "natural" amp ("transparent" as well, but that one just sucks because of the useless tone controls), which is sort of saving the unit for me (more on that possibly later). Once you've played one of the better modelers, the GT modeling really pales. To put it mildly. The kind of compression also isn't feeling like an amp starting to pump, like an organic "breathe" or whatever. No, it's just cheap, digital compression.
The amps are so bad I'm actually almost shocked (and I have no idea why I didn't notice it some years back when I had one borrowed for 2 days or so). Even worse: That kinda compression can't be "unheard" or rather "un-feeled".
But then: For the kind of jobs where I will use the GT on it's own, this very compression will possibly even be kinda helpful (we shall see, I'll report...).
Also: The "natural" amp will likely be able to serve fine as a pedal platform - and it might perhaps be what I'll end up using the unit the most (in case I don't sell it).

- Similar for the drives. Some are ok (such as the "Natural OD" or the "Blues OD"), some are just horrible ("Warm OD", "Fat OD", etc. - wtf where you thinking, Boss?!?). They don't even seem to be able to properly recreate their own drives. At least I don't remember my OD-1 to sound like that. The Fuzzes suck all throughout. Zero dynamics.

Sure, I'm used to the HX ecosystem and Line 6's partially excellent amps and dirt boxes, but this is night and day. Didn't expect to be this dissapointed.

- All editing. Yes. All throughout. Which essentially makes the GT the least inspiring device I've had my hands on in the last years. It's worse than previous GT devices, too. On the GT-10, they had one button for each block. Just excellent. Oh, there's too many of them on the GT-1000? Well, even if it was 20 (most relevant) blocks, there'd be enough space on the unit to have a small button/switch for each. Because without them, you end up scrolling like a mad man on the unit. Also, as if they had stolen it from the HX units, at least for the amps the parameter order is completely messed up. Heck, with 5 encoders, I want gain, bass, mids, treble and volume on the first page of parameters. But it's type, gain, sag, resonance and level. Sag and resonance need to be turned all the way down anyway. Unless you want even more compression horror, that is.
They could kinda mimic the switch behaviour of the GT-10 when editing is active, like using the footswitches which would as well take you to the block assigned - but no, let's just scroll around as mad...
Also, no popup lists of menu options (such as when selecting, say, a new drive in the HX series), no, you only ever scroll through them without knowing the next/previous item. Sucky.
And all that brings me to the next thing. Which would deserve an extra post. Heck, even an extra thread. And then some...

- Editing with Boss Tone Studio. I can not remember having to use any application that bad in quite a while.
Their desktop editor seems to be sort of solid at first glance, but it so much sucks, it's beyond belief already. No way to rearrange patches (which, interestingly enough, is possible on the unit). No way to copy block settings between blocks and patches (unless you want to use the Stompbox function, which is quite cumbersome). The entire editor is incredibly un-responsive, saving a patch takes ages, switching to another one, too, when you fool around with the Stompbox thingy the entire function stops to work after a while, etc. Let alone that when you're in the editor for a while, the EXP pedal movements become all steppy (wellknown issue, fwiw). And don't even think about using the (otherwise most excellent) trackpad of a Macbook. Finetunings? Just forget about it. Which brings us to the next thing...
The mobile editors. On paper, it's super nice to have mobile editors working via BT. Just that they're an offense towards human intelligence, no less. As unresponsive as the desktop app, parameter adjustments as awkward as with a trackpad, just that you can't use a mouse instead, BT connection lost here and there, etc. And as if the smartphone editor wasn't bad enough, there's the tablet editor. Which is no dedicated editor. You'd expect it to work as the desktop editor, hence signal flow and blocks on top to select, bottom area to show the parameters and adjust. But no, there's not even a landscape mode. The virtual knobs are also *that* huge that you need to flip pages to access all parameters. Really, it's just the phone editor zoomed in.
I'll stop here because I actually want to put it up into some classifieds already just because of that...

- No USB class compliance. Sucks big time. With the HX series, I can just connect any phone/tablet via USB, start a MIDI controller app and control all things MIDI. Not possible with the GT. Also no mobile OS audio options.
I wanted to control my Stompbox settings via USB and a simple MIDI fader app. Not possible.

- No BT connectivity outside of Boss Tone Studio. Hence no MIDI-over-BT, either. I actually still can't believe that, but when I asked around (mainly in the big GT-1000 group on FB - which is a shithole in itself, btw.), all I got was recommendations to buy a BT-to-MIDI adapter kit (like those CME WIDI things). I would really love to shove some BT dongles into Boss' <youknowwhere>. Is this the same for the BT plugs you can buy for, say, the GX units? Is all you can connect Boss' Tone Studio app?

- There's several more cons that I might get into sometime. Such as their IR loader. Or their internal cab system. Or their output routing "idea" (which is just soo awkward). Or their non-freely-assignable click-encoders. Or their shitty looper wasting 3 switches (when the same functionality and then some could be had with 2).

 

[Sascha Franck]

That was it for now. And yes, I perfectly understand if you don't want to read it. But there might be some useful bits for people having an eye on Boss' units. This includes the GX ones as, at least given the sound, they're pretty much identical. Easier to edit, though.

I'll defenitely do a gig report. Being the danger seeker that I am, my current plans are to bring just the GT and no external pedals. My main board (even if I could bring it in addition) will stay at home, too.

Oh, btw: Due to the form factor and the Stompbox functionality, the GT will still be a keeper in case a) it's working standalone for at least some sort of gig and b) in case I can find a decent pedal platform setting.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Good writeup. I assume you set your input levels RE: dynamics/compression issues?

The GT is great for form factor and overall reliability. I like the few Boss amps I like more than anything in the Helix. Delays and mods are great; reverbs are boring and ugly and drives are atrocious. Really everything you wrote I agree with. Output routing implementation is dumb af, app looks nice to my eyes but slow and buggy. I always root for Boss so I hope they look around and actually see what's happening vs. the old head in the sand routine and remodel their legacy amps from the ground up. They won't I'm sure

 

[Sascha Franck]

Good writeup. I assume you set your input levels RE: dynamics/compression issues?

I went as low as -6dB, but that's making things tough in terms of loop level balancing (I'd prefer to keep them at unity all throughout), and I also noticed that I could as well just lower the amp gain, same effect - ok, once you add internal dirt pedals it's yet another game, but in general, lowering input level simply doesn't help the compression anyway (and fwiw, I'm not using hot pickups in any guitar).

remodel their legacy amps from the ground up.

Talking about legacy amps: I'm not entirely sure (and pretty afraid to do a reality check), but it might be possible that some of their older amp offerings sound better in the GT-10 than the comparable iterations in the GT-1000.
Whatever, the GT-10 is sitting on the shelve next to me and I might be fearless enough to do a comparison later on.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I went as low as -6dB, but that's making things tough in terms of loop level balancing (I'd prefer to keep them at unity all throughout), and I also noticed that I could as well just lower the amp gain, same effect - ok, once you add internal dirt pedals it's yet another game, but in general, lowering input level simply doesn't help the compression anyway (and fwiw, I'm not using hot pickups in any guitar).



Talking about legacy amps: I'm not entirely sure (and pretty afraid to do a reality check), but it might be possible that some of their older amp offerings sound better in the GT-10 than the comparable iterations in the GT-1000.
Whatever, the GT-10 is sitting on the shelve next to me and I might be fearless enough to do a comparison later on.

Well I know you aren't near as hung up on the amps as I am with Boss. And that's ok. Plenty of annoyance to go around

 

[Sascha Franck]

Plenty of annoyance to go around

Believe me, I already noticed. Much more than I'd like to. Much more than I was expecting already, too - and I wasn't expecting much. In fact, I was really only hoping for some improvements on their Marshall-ish-dirt and Fender-ish-clean takes. Which pretty much every other company in that league has accomplished already. No, you won't get FAS levels of accuracy (or even just HX levels of accuracy), and I don't expect that, either. But FFS, give me something not compressing when I just even think about touching it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Believe me, I already noticed. Much more than I'd like to. Much more than I was expecting already, too - and I wasn't expecting much. In fact, I was really only hoping for some improvements on their Marshall-ish-dirt and Fender-ish-clean takes. Which pretty much every other company in that league has accomplished already. No, you won't get FAS levels of accuracy (or even just HX levels of accuracy), and I don't expect that, either. But FFS, give me something not compressing when I just even think about touching it.

Yeah the GT is "easy to play" almost to a fault.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah the GT is "easy to play" almost to a fault.

Defenitely my biggest issue (Leon also mentioned it in his GX-10 video). Not that I wouldn't mind some amps that would be a little forgiving, but I'd rather decide on my own. And in most cases, I defenitely prefer dynamic amps, especially as I'm used to fool around with my volume pot a lot.

 

[laxu]

Love to read detailed writeups like these.

I came very close to picking up a used GT-1000 Core when I was in Osaka earlier this year. I was just afraid it would be surpassed by a "GX-1000" by the end of the year but I guess that's not happening. Now I feel less bad for not buying it.

I messed with the UI a bit in a store and noticed the ton of scrolling you need to do to go between blocks. I liked the long press param list you can open for the block tho.

 

[gonzoknife]

I had the GT-1k a long time ago and more recently got the Core. I thought it would be a good alternative to the HX Stomp for additional effects on my board with an amp (I like Boss effects) and an all around utility box. I never used the 1k with an amp but the Core has horrible bypass tone. There's no hardware bypass and even with no blocks on it alters your tone A LOT. Much thinner and lacking in bass. I tried everything (I know the Boss mentality well) and eventually gave up and sold it. I still have an MD-500 and that has no issues with bypass tone. Boss knows how to engineer bypass but for some reason didn't with the Core (and maybe the 1k).

I have an HX Stomp now (for the 2nd time).

 

[JiveTurkey]

I had the GT-1k a long time ago and more recently got the Core. I thought it would be a good alternative to the HX Stomp for additional effects on my board with an amp (I like Boss effects) and an all around utility box. I never used the 1k with an amp but the Core has horrible bypass tone. There's no hardware bypass and even with no blocks on it alters your tone A LOT. Much thinner and lacking in bass. I tried everything (I know the Boss mentality well) and eventually gave up and sold it. I still have an MD-500 and that has no issues with bypass tone. Boss knows how to engineer bypass but for some reason didn't with the Core (and maybe the 1k).

I have an HX Stomp now (for the 2nd time).

Output select is stupid, 2M input impedance is stupid, noisy on top of that. Should have been a Stomp replacement for me tenfold but instead was a buy and dump.

This also segues into why Boss threads don't really get any traction. They just aren't exciting pieces of gear. Nothing new and worthwhile ever comes to them and they have no one talking about them and getting you excited about the project because there is nothing exciting about the project in the first place.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I liked the long press param list you can open for the block tho.

It's ok-ish for an overview but doesn't change much because you still need to page around like mad.
Also, it doesn't work for either amp or drive types, where it'd make the most sense to have a nice list.

 

[Sascha Franck]

They just aren't exciting pieces of gear.

This! To quote myself:

Which essentially makes the GT the least inspiring device I've had my hands on in the last years.

Core tones perhaps useful but defenitely not great, editing just passing the "not acceptable anymore!" mark, FX decent but "utility-ish".

The only thing I'm hoping for (and that's actually why I bought it) is the Stompbox feature making my life easier. My plans are to program a bunch of core patches, save all the main core tones as Stompboxes, assign their most relevant parameters to MIDI CCs which I will control from a tablet (yes, I'll even spend some money on the WIDI thing) and never adjust anything else anymore.
Regardless of all the mentioned issues, if that turns out to work well (as said, I need to make sure it'd work standalone for some stuff and also serve as a pedal platform), it'll likely be worth the effort and closer to an ideal setup than anything else.
But all that doesn't change anything with the fact that this unit is just not providing any "fooling around" fun. I will very certainly only pull it out at home to create new live sets - but it won't ever be recorded.

 

[kartikg3]

The main reason for this dilemma isn't even necessarily the overall sound of their amps but their dynamics. Each and every (!) amp model is compressing way too much. The only useful one not doing it all too much would be the "natural" amp ("transparent" as well, but that one just sucks because of the useless tone controls), which is sort of saving the unit for me (more on that possibly later). Once you've played one of the better modelers, the GT modeling really pales. To put it mildly. The kind of compression also isn't feeling like an amp starting to pump, like an organic "breathe" or whatever. No, it's just cheap, digital compression.
The amps are so bad I'm actually almost shocked (and I have no idea why I didn't notice it some years back when I had one borrowed for 2 days or so). Even worse: That kinda compression can't be "unheard" or rather "un-feeled".
But then: For the kind of jobs where I will use the GT on it's own, this very compression will possibly even be kinda helpful (we shall see, I'll report...).
Also: The "natural" amp will likely be able to serve fine as a pedal platform - and it might perhaps be what I'll end up using the unit the most (in case I don't sell it).

Thanks for the review.

I know tone, feel etc. are very subjective, but I like what I hear in this as far as amp sounds are concerned..

 

[Sascha Franck]

I know tone, feel etc. are very subjective, but I like what I hear in this as far as amp sounds are concerned..

Sure. But all sounds you hear in this video are in fact very compressed. Which serves some purposes, especially on leads. But it's no good for many kinds of solid rhythm guitars (the rhythm guitar he's playing at the beginning might work with compression but I don't particularly like that very sound).
Fwiw, you very clearly hear the compression that's annoying me so much at the end of him dialing the amp in (at 3:05).

 

[kartikg3]

Fwiw, you very clearly hear the compression that's annoying me so much at the end of him dialing the amp in (at 3:05).

Ah yes. That's the stuff that reminds me of my H&K and Supro, maybe that's why I like that.

 

[Jarick]

As much as everyone raves about the feel of the Boss units, I didn't like them much. I didn't notice the lower latency while playing, and they often seem kind of "stiff" feeling. I also found the higher gain tones to sound more like a direct tone with a distortion pedal than like a tube amp. Then for the effects, again I am not getting that same vibe as I do from the stomps.

That said I think it's really cool what Boss did with the GT and GX units. Having gapless switching, all that power under the hood, dual amps, solid build quality, reasonable price, all that is quite good.

Would be very interested to see what they could do with another generation of modeling.

 

[Sascha Franck]

As much as everyone raves about the feel of the Boss units, I didn't like them much. I didn't notice the lower latency while playing, and they often seem kind of "stiff" feeling. I also found the higher gain tones to sound more like a direct tone with a distortion pedal than like a tube amp.

Every bit all of this. And pretty much everything is related to that dreaded compression. Which, btw, also results in more noise, at least in certain situations.
I really fail to understand why they did it that way. Maybe they think of it as some kinda secret sauce or so. Or they just wanted to make things easy to play (which they kind of are).
But then, I also really don't get their editing paradigm. A company such as Boss should do better. They have decades of experience with all things digital. And yet they're coming up with editors that seem to be programmed by utter morons.

Whatever, I seem to have found a decent pedal platform setting and will give that a testride on Saturday. I will start the gig with just the internal stuff but have a two patches prepared to connect my dirt-box-sidecar that I'll bring as well.