BluGuitar Amp X

laxu said:
Do you think you have hangups about the cost because it's not all-tube, or because modelers do more?
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Both I guess. I don’t mind the “not all tube thing”, but I think it’s a tough sell considering what it’s going up against. You could build an analog or digital rig for less quite easily, depending on what your needs and priorities are. This ticks the boxes for someone who is absolutely sold on everything Blug does and is willing to fully commit to that.

I think guys who don’t want to carry a big heavy amp around a city already have solutions, whether they want to go digital or not. This just gets thrown in amongst everything else, but costing significantly more.

I don’t think this can be compared to a boutique amp on any level really. It’s “cool” factor is the technology/concept. It’s not a boutique item in the way a Two Rock or something is. In fact, the only thing it has in common with boutique is the price. It’s not a boutique build or appearance. I’d also have reservations comparing it to something like a Helix or Fractal which have years of development and usually teams of people working on them. Even comparing to Synergy, I think the appeal of that platform is the ability to swap/buy/sell different modules - for someone who wants to just “one and done” it you’d buy something else.

Maybe I’m totally misjudging the demand. I’m sure the vast majority of people think it’s a cool idea and would also never see a reason to buy one. It’s probably pretty good across the board but just lacking any real desirability in any particular area.

If Blackstar released this (or something like it) for £2000, do you think it would be a success?
 
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laxu said:
Amp X update from their latest live stream:
  • Release in 2026.
  • Price around 2000 euros.
  • Will be shown off at NAMM by multiple players.
  • Hardware pretty much done, software still a work in progress. Nothing new there!
  • Will likely ship with every amp/fx they have done so far.
  • Purchaseable sounds will have some sort of demo mode. They don't want to make it too annoying, but still provide incentive for your to buy them.
  • Boost pedal section can now include simpler drives so you could do dual analog drive pedals with Boost + Drive.
  • Pedals can have various modes. Showed a Dallas Rangemaster Treble Booster with multiple options.
  • Likely no pitch effects on release because they are not happy with the quality of the ones they have.
  • Amps can have things like different input selection. Showed Plexi model with Normal/Jumped/High treble inputs.
  • Bright cap can be adjusted on Amp 1 Mercury models at least, which makes it much easier to work with. On the Amp 1 you need to work around it with Gain knob vs guitar volume or reducing max gain via MIDI.
  • Front panel "Boost" knob will be relabeled "Guitar in" and will be a knob with a detent in the middle that you can use to compensate for lower/higher output guitars so your presets will work without having to adjust all of them if you change from say a Strat -> Les Paul. Basically input gain control.
  • There will be a way to select between editing amp tone stack EQ vs Amp 1 style post EQ.
  • Fx loop can be adjusted between series, parallel, and stereo in series or parallel.
  • Cab sim can be applied even to amp speaker out. Could be used in the future to power a FRFR cab?
  • Footswitch programming is flexible. Fx on/off, preset selection, dual functions (e.g dual presets on one footswitch)
  • Supports 128 presets atm.
  • Supports reamping via USB.
I'm still interested, but will have to see what the final product looks like. I feel like the software they showed off still felt like it needed a good amount of polish, and had a good amount of "not there yet but coming" features. Reminds me a bit of HX Stadium release in that sense.
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Finally after 12 years of waiting!
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I don’t think this can be compared to a boutique amp on any level really. It’s “cool” factor is the technology/concept. It’s not a boutique item in the way a Two Rock or something is. I’d also have reservations comparing it to something like a Helix or Fractal which have years of development and usually teams of people working on them. Even comparing to Synergy, I think the appeal of that platform is the ability to swap/buy/sell different modules - for someone who wants to just “one and done” it you’d buy something else.
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The Amp 1 Mercury Edition made me sell my boutique Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead because I felt I could get those tones out of the Amp 1. The Amp 1 Iridium easily competes with my Mesa Mark V too. So it's not a question of sound or feel at all IMO.

I think the hangups people have with this are the same as with the Amp 1. "How can an amp that looks like a large, somewhat ugly pedal compare to this big ass hulking tolexed box I'm used to?"

I think if BluGuitar can get the Amp X to stores for people to try in person, it will find more proponents for it. It really is a bit of a "try it for yourself" thing where I was skeptical about the Amp 1 at first, and initially even considered returning it until I learned to work around the bright cap.

I feel with Synergy, most users will eventually find that the system is limited by whatever cabs you have. You find that different modules are not that drastically different through the same cab. To me it appeals most as a "build your own amp channels" system. With the option to change those later if you didn't like your choices, or something "better" comes out. Like today I'd pick the Marshall JMP module over the other Marshall Plexi based modules Synergy sell because it has that "zero watt poweramp" tech built into it.
 
laxu said:
The Amp 1 Mercury Edition made me sell my boutique Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead because I felt I could get those tones out of the Amp 1. The Amp 1 Iridium easily competes with my Mesa Mark V too. So it's not a question of sound or feel at all IMO.

I think the hangups people have with this are the same as with the Amp 1. "How can an amp that looks like a large, somewhat ugly pedal compare to this big ass hulking tolexed box I'm used to?"
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This isn’t the point I’m making at all actually. This is focussing purely on the sound, and my point is it doesn’t really matter how it sounds so long as it does the job. I’m sure it sounds great and perfectly capable. It’s like how a Vietnamese DSL can sound just as good as a vintage JMP, but it’s less cool to own. I don’t think anyone really wants to actually own this over a boutique amp, they’d just be trading off the expensive/boutique side for convenience. Just as you would using a Synergy version of an amp, or a digital product, or a Friedman/Victory preamp pedal or whatever. This could sound absolutely insanely good, but just because of the nature of the kind of product that it is (and made worse by its appearance) it’s always going to carry a small dick energy vibe to it.

As I said, if Blackstar made something like this (IMO the concept is somewhat in line with their approach), would it be a success at £2000? I would imagine a Blackstar version of this would look much more slick and marketable.
 
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MirrorProfiles said:
This isn’t the point I’m making at all actually. This is focussing purely on the sound, and my point is it doesn’t really matter how it sounds so long as it does the job. I’m sure it sounds great and perfectly capable. It’s like how a Vietnamese DSL can sound just as good as a vintage JMP, but it’s less cool to own. I don’t think anyone really wants to actually own this over a boutique amp, they’d just be trading off the expensive/boutique side for convenience. Just as you would using a Synergy version of an amp, or a digital product, or a Friedman/Victory preamp pedal or whatever. This could sound absolutely insanely good, but just because of the nature of the kind of product that it is (and made worse by its appearance) it’s always going to carry a small dick energy vibe to it.
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Yeah I can understand that. IMO e.g Two Rocks are hugely overpriced amps, yet there are people willing to spend 5-6K euros for those just because of the Dumble circuit association. Which is like twice what boutique Marshalls or Fenders or very complex multi-channel amps cost.

MirrorProfiles said:
As I said, if Blackstar made something like this (IMO the concept is somewhat in line with their approach), would it be a success at £2000? I would imagine a Blackstar version of this would look much more slick and marketable.
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I feel like Blackstar at this point has run out of any goodwill to release a product like that.

If say Victory put out a product like that? I could imagine it would do better.
 
I think I agree with @MirrorProfiles , BUT, I have been wrong many many times before, so . . .

The popularity also may be compounded by the fact that the Mercury and Iridium are so well liked, and can be had for half (or less) the price. I currently use a Mercury on a Mono small board with my HX Stomp XL and Exp pedal. Even though I am married to polyphonic pitch shifting some of the time, even if I weren't, that is A LOT of pre and post fx, and midi switching, for much less money, than an AMP X, and I have ZERO interest in changing.

I will say, as good as my Stomp sounds, I definitely enjoy using the Mercury more, whether that be through a guitar cabinet, IEMs, or FRFR.
 
UFOs will land on the White House lawn before this thing ships.

Aliens GIF
 
Will the core amp sounds in the Amp X be the same as those in the Amp1 Mercury and Amp1 Iridium, just with more models, or are they supposed to be substantially better?
 
Richard_G said:
Will the core amp sounds in the Amp X be the same as those in the Amp1 Mercury and Amp1 Iridium, just with more models, or are they supposed to be substantially better?
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Afaik they're supposed to be the same, but who knows if they've somehow made them a bit better in the process.
 
laxu said:
You pay for a boutique amp, and get fx and future upgradeability thrown in with a way more portable form factor.

Do you think you have hangups about the cost because it's not all-tube, or because modelers do more?

A Synergy SYN50 rig costs more than this with 2 modules, and will cost more for additional modules, while still not having effects or cab sims.
Similarly most boutique tube amps are in a similar or higher price point.
A Helix Stadium or FM9 costs more in Europe and doesn't have the poweramp, plus all those usual "does the digital model do the same thing as the analog gear" stuff.
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An FM9 and a power amp is $2500, and does a lot more. I'd rather go that route. This is a cool idea, and I wish Thomas well. But it ain't for me. Had he put the Mercury and Iridium into lunchbox heads, I'd be interested.
 
I haven’t made it past the first half hour of the latest vlog, but one thing is for sure, dude can play his fucking ass off. The live song they showed at the start using the X with that trio, Thomas absolutely crushed the back half of the song.

Curious to watch the rest. I think he missed the market by about two years with this, but I hope the thing is friggin awesome. We need dudes like him to win in this space.
 
[Nathan] said:
Even an FM3 + Poweramp takes that pricetag down a whole bunch and is basically equally capable.
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Minus that if the power amp is purely solid state, and cheap enough, it may not perform like what's in these Thomas units. I believe many people would prefer the power amp section from these.
 
A thought: I wonder how the sound and feel may change as the nanotube gets older. Maybe there's no perceptible difference -- but as far as I see, these tubes aren't supposed to be replaced by users themselves?
 
Dimiguitar said:
A thought: I wonder how the sound and feel may change as the nanotube gets older. Maybe there's no perceptible difference -- but as far as I see, these tubes aren't supposed to be replaced by users themselves?
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Correct, they're soldered to the board on the Amp 1 units at least. I'm also wondering if there's any potential issues with supply. BluGuitar has always said they have a lot of them so who knows.

But tubes generally last a long time and the subminiature tube is not used for amplification so it's not like it's getting hit hard.
 
Dimiguitar said:
Minus that if the power amp is purely solid state, and cheap enough, it may not perform like what's in these Thomas units. I believe many people would prefer the power amp section from these.
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I would think of the Amp X poweramp as more solid state than valve. IIRC nanotube is acting like phase inverter and the amplification is Class D. Preamp is solid state analog (like a typical pedal, or solid state preamp). I’m sure it sounds good and well optimised for the circuit but I’m also sure that people would have their preference and a decent valve poweramp would probably sound a bit better (with all its own usual downsides of cost/size/weight/reliability etc).
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I would think of the Amp X poweramp as more solid state than valve. IIRC nanotube is acting like phase inverter and the amplification is Class D. Preamp is solid state analog (like a typical pedal, or solid state preamp). I’m sure it sounds good and well optimised for the circuit but I’m also sure that people would have their preference and a decent valve poweramp would probably sound a bit better (with all its own usual downsides of cost/size/weight/reliability etc).
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I own a Fryette PS-100. It's not that much different from the BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition as a poweramp for modelers. The PS is maybe a little bit more neutral but nothing you can't compensate with amp model settings or EQ block.

The Amp 1 Iridium Edition is more "opinionated" as a poweramp so it will color the sound in a similar manner to a guitar poweramp.

With people complaining about solid-state this and that poweramp all the time, I've never experienced that. All modelers I've tried have sounded great through the BluGuitar poweramp. It has just been largely a waste of time because the Amp 1's own preamps sound so good, so there's not much incentive to replace them with something else.

I was running the UA Lion plugin into the BluGuitar poweramp just to compare it to the Amp 1 Vintage channel. With a few EQ tweaks on the BluGuitar I got very similar results, just without latency.

I think there is something to be said for not having to cobble two products from different companies together. Just like people like being able to just plug in the Kemper powered toaster, the same can be said about just plugging into any amp and not having to worry if the poweramp is a good match for the rest.
 
laxu said:
I own a Fryette PS-100. It's not that much different from the BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition as a poweramp for modelers. The PS is maybe a little bit more neutral but nothing you can't compensate with amp model settings or EQ block.

The Amp 1 Iridium Edition is more "opinionated" as a poweramp so it will color the sound in a similar manner to a guitar poweramp.

With people complaining about solid-state this and that poweramp all the time, I've never experienced that. All modelers I've tried have sounded great through the BluGuitar poweramp. It has just been largely a waste of time because the Amp 1's own preamps sound so good, so there's not much incentive to replace them with something else.

I was running the UA Lion plugin into the BluGuitar poweramp just to compare it to the Amp 1 Vintage channel. With a few EQ tweaks on the BluGuitar I got very similar results, just without latency.

I think there is something to be said for not having to cobble two products from different companies together. Just like people like being able to just plug in the Kemper powered toaster, the same can be said about just plugging into any amp and not having to worry if the poweramp is a good match for the rest.
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Yeah, again I’m not really making any comment on the sound of it. I’m sure it’s really well designed and appropriate for the amp and does what it needs to. I have zero doubts about the tones holding their own. I love solid state and hybrid gear as much as valve amps and digital so definitely no bias with tones.

But I still would be hesitant to compare a JFET based preamp with a class D poweramp to boutique amps and 100W valve power sections. Regardless of how it sounds, the circuit is more like a Valvestate (one of my favourite amps!) or Blackstar where it’s using solid state components to model a valve circuit. It does it very well, and the switching to change the circuit is awesome. I think people will always just expect solid state guitar gear to cost much less than valve gear, and when prices are approaching the more boutique end of guitar amps, people’s expectations change with it. £2k is a lot for something totally new that customers will have to put a lot of faith in.

I agree on a total system vs combining stuff together, it fixes a lot of problems by designing it together from the ground up. But IMO, things like Synergy are purposefully modular and I think the appeal for users would be precisely so they can spec what they want. Even if it ends up costing more (it’s similar for 500 series studio gear, where all in, I don’t think it works out cheaper but you can build a customisable modular rig that you can easily tinker with). The same is largely true for rack setups, the appeal and fun for guys who are into it is being able to mix and match.
 
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