BluGuitar Amp X

[Fireproof]

All I've gathered from this thread is that I miss the OG creator, Fireproof

Hey buddy. Just catching up on the missed dialog here and saw this.

Super kind of you to say! Missed you guys as well.

 

[Fireproof]

The problem isnt entirely that he wants to charge for amps. (Though I’d have declining interest in that approach unless the launch selection was thorough) The problem is he is going to charge $1,999 to ship you a device where some (if not all?) of the new amps are paywalled. A person would generally assume that the purchase itself is compensating him for his effort to bring it to market, not just a vehicle for additional purchase of all the new stuff he had been working on.

Amps he develops in the future, maybe that would be tolerable.

Sounds to me like this is just not a financially viable product, and he is banking on users to bail him out?

Yeah I feel like the market has passed him by and now it’s too little too late.

The difference in tone and feel between analog and digital is near imperceptible at this point. And the digital side has led to users expecting a ton of amp and effects options in the box, with free updates and additions after launch.

I’m sure he’ll sell a couple hundred units to fans and analog aficionados, but IMHO - it’s not going be a hit with the “masses”. It’ll be a niche product for a small percentage and I wonder if he’ll even get a ROI out of it.

 

[laxu]

The problem isnt entirely that he wants to charge for amps. (Though I’d have declining interest in that approach unless the launch selection was thorough) The problem is he is going to charge $1,999 to ship you a device where some (if not all?) of the new amps are paywalled. A person would generally assume that the purchase itself is compensating him for his effort to bring it to market, not just a vehicle for additional purchase of all the new stuff he had been working on.

Amps he develops in the future, maybe that would be tolerable.

Sounds to me like this is just not a financially viable product, and he is banking on users to bail him out?

He has said many times that his goal is for it to be a long term product. I don't see how that will work out when it was a little bit dated even when it was originally unveiled. If it had come out shortly after that time, it would have found its market better than now that we are due for a next generation of modelers that will narrow the gap between analog and digital even further.

Now I feel the Amp X will be left behind when people start expecting things like touchscreens, computer/mobile editors etc right out of the box because even the cheaper modeling brands are doing that. "Analog purity" is getting increasingly harder to sell when more and more people start playing guitar with say a Boss Katana, Valeton or whatever, so they get used to how digital feels and then upgrade to the more capable ones with lower latency.

I'm guessing Blug's line of thinking is that it will provide access to proper analog fx/amps in an actual amp that is compact and convenient, whereas modeling will always be judged by digital averse people or those who are sticklers about latency. So the people who might consider one are those who have avoided modelers to this point, but don't want to haul their prized, heavy amps to gigs anymore. Maybe it's WYSIWYG enough to not feel too overwhelming for them.

The Dumble amp is a really good selling point since you could get Amp X for less than what most Dumble clones cost, and have a lot more features with it.

I agree that the Amp X should at least ship with a comprehensive set of fx, Amp 1 sounds and all the amps Blug has demoed from his collection so far. The Dumble I could see as a separate DLC purchase.

 

[CorrosiveMatter]

I wish Blug had the means to get his stuff out much quicker, I don't want him to go away from the industry.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Not for people who gotta have it..

Yeah the hardcore fans will buy it, but that's a limited audience. Targeting hardcore fans works for small runs or handmade items. If he wants this to be a long term product, pricing needs to be competitive in the mainstream market.

Things like the BlackStar Amped 2 or the Hughes and Kettner Black Spirit Floor is where this market is at now. I think Blug can afford to charge a bit more than these, because he makes a superior product (especially than the Blackstars) but at $2k he's on a whole different price range, and one that's not traditionally friendly to SS products.

In the video, Blug says they need to make money, considering the investment in the ampx, work required for new models and such.

But I wonder how many people would be more likely to buy an ampx if it had a lot of amp models built in and/or new amp models were cheaper.

Are they really financially better off selling amp packs this way?

I don't understand the market enough to be able to answer that question with any level of confidence. But what do you guys think?

I don't think the separate packs are a deal breaker. Bluguitar amps are extremely versatile. Even my Amp1 Mercury can cover a multitude of styles easily and well.
But I do think the price of the unit has to come down quite a bit.

BTW, I want to be wrong about this. I love my Amp1 and I admire Thomas as an engineer and as player. I'm rooting for him to succeed. But I think he's pricing himself out at the moment.

 

[banned]

So, what are the amps coming with the $1999 price? (i.e. the combination of the amps in the existing units - what are they?)

 

[timbuck3]

I don't even mind the paid thing too much. It does take a lot of time to measure and reproduce amps, pedals and whatnot. I assume it gets much easier when they have most of the archetype amps covered, in the same way e.g Fractal can slap together a Marshall SV20 model quickly because by dialing in the right values for the model params - most of which are probably identical to the other Marshalls Cliff has already done.

But consider this: a lot of you have amps that you love. Would you pay money to get an additional channel or mode for your favorite amp that expands its capabilities? I know I would. We are just used to having that cost baked in on digital modelers, where the R&D cost is amortized via volume sales.

Could BluGuitar make the Amp X cost say 2500 € instead with free upgrades? Yeah, but now it faces a lot more competition from traditional amps. There's still a stigma that solid-state/hybrid amps should be cheaper. The Amp 1 units are in that sweet spot where they are not cheap, but they are not that expensive either considering what you get.

The two Amp 1 models are so versatile that I would mainly care about additional delay/mod/pitch/reverb effects. The Amp 1 boost is good enough, and the amp channels have so much gain on tap you don't really care about overdrives.

My big issue is that I fear the usability will be the worst of "pedals with presets" experience. You can never look at your knobs because they never point at the right value. You have to constantly wiggle them back and forth to get to the saved value, and then the value that you really want. All this could have been avoided by using infinite encoders and just showing the value on screen, especially for the X controls.

Blug says that everything is MIDI controllable, so it's possible that you could build 3rd party tools to get around the issues of the Amp X design. But that's always going to be a bit hacky compared to first party solutions, and more complication that could've been resolved ages ago in the Amp X design.

My pedalboard is about the size of the Amp X, and probably much more weight. But the plus side is that I can put any effect from any manufacturer on it, each with dedicated user experience rather than a generic one.

Something like a HX Stadium seems like a better idea to me because it does offer unique ways to edit effects (Focus view) and greatly simplifies programming switching compared to my MIDI driven setup.

Could BluGuitar make the Amp X cost say 2500 € instead with free upgrades? Yeah, but now it faces a lot more competition from traditional amps.

Well at 2 k it’s already competing.. and add a few amps and effects later and you are closer to 2500-3 k

 

[timbuck3]

Yeah I feel like the market has passed him by and now it’s too little too late.

The difference in tone and feel between analog and digital is near imperceptible at this point. And the digital side has led to users expecting a ton of amp and effects options in the box, with free updates and additions after launch.

I’m sure he’ll sell a couple hundred units to fans and analog aficionados, but IMHO - it’s not going be a hit with the “masses”. It’ll be a niche product for a small percentage and I wonder if he’ll even get a ROI out of it.

Agree he will sell about 500 units max I bet.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

So, what are the amps coming with the $1999 price? (i.e. the combination of the amps in the existing units - what are they?)

If it's the combination of both units, it would be:

Clean - fender based
Vintage Mercury - JTM
Vintage Iridium - Super Lead
Classic Mercury - stock 800
Classic Iridium - modded 800
Modern Mercury- Mesa
Modern Iridium- ENGL

But these are not amp "models", just amps he used as references when voicing the channels. They're not meant to be exact copies of the amps.

 

[banned]

If it's the combination of both units, it would be:

Clean - fender based
Vintage Mercury - JTM
Vintage Iridium - Super Lead
Classic Mercury - stock 800
Classic Iridium - modded 800
Modern Mercury- Mesa
Modern Iridium- ENGL

But these are not amp "models", just amps he used as references when voicing the channels. They're not meant to be exact copies of the amps.

Looks like if he added a Vox and a Fender Tweed in there, he'd have a good level of 'completeness'. If those were included in the base $2000 price, it wouldn't be such a bad deal. You could do most gigs with just those sounds. I'd be pretty satisfied.

He could then charge extra $ for the Dumbles etc.

 

[laxu]

Looks like if he added a Vox and a Fender Tweed in there, he'd have a good level of 'completeness'. If those were included in the base $2000 price, it wouldn't be such a bad deal. You could do most gigs with just those sounds. I'd be pretty satisfied.

He could then charge extra $ for the Dumbles etc.

Not mentioned is that the little tone knob on many of those channels can turn then into something else. For example Mercury Classic can be dialed from Plexi to JCM800 and beyond.

Mercury Clean will do Fender Tweed style-ish tones too.

The Mercury Modern starts from a SLO and goes to more of an ENGL sound.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Looks like if he added a Vox and a Fender Tweed in there, he'd have a good level of 'completeness'. If those were included in the base $2000 price, it wouldn't be such a bad deal. You could do most gigs with just those sounds. I'd be pretty satisfied.

He could then charge extra $ for the Dumbles etc.

Well they have these voicing knobs on the side that alter the character amps character. On the "Fender" channel, it goes from tweed to blackface. On the Mesa channel the voicing goes from Mark to Recto etc..

And since they're pots, you can blend the different voicing and create unique combinations.

Bluguitar amps are ridiculously versatile. The design and engineering are very solid on these amps. I have little doubt the AmpX will cover a huge amount of tones, right off the bat.

 

[timbuck3]

Well they have these voicing knobs on the side that alter the character amps character. On the "Fender" channel, it goes from tweed to blackface. On the Mesa channel the voicing goes from Mark to Recto etc..

And since they're pots, you can blend the different voicing and create unique combinations.

Bluguitar amps are ridiculously versatile. The design and engineering are very solid on these amps. I have little doubt the AmpX will cover a huge amount of tones, right off the bat.

Can you save those into presets

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Can you save those into presets

Not with the Amp1, but I think the AmpX will let you do that.

 

[timbuck3]

"There’s something incredibly satisfying about playing through this amp": Laney Lionheart Foundry Super 60 112 review

This Laney might be tube-less, but still manages to deliver the roar we’ve come to expect from its fan-favourite Lionheart combo

www.musicradar.com

This is a cheaper amp

 

[[Nathan]]

"There’s something incredibly satisfying about playing through this amp": Laney Lionheart Foundry Super 60 112 review

This Laney might be tube-less, but still manages to deliver the roar we’ve come to expect from its fan-favourite Lionheart combo

www.musicradar.com

This is a cheaper amp

Yes….. and?

Your wildcard X factor needs to be studied

 

[timbuck3]

Yes….. and?

Your wildcard X factor needs to be studied

And it’s cheaper

 

[laxu]

To expand on the talk about the Amp 1 channels. This is how I would describe them:

Amp 1 Mercury Edition

• Clean. Fender Tweed -> Blackface
• Vintage. Marshall JTM/Superlead
• Classic. Marshall Superlead -> JCM800 -> modded JCM800?
• Modern. Soldano SLO -> ENGL.

Amp 1 Iridium Edition

• Clean. Fender Tweed -> Blackface, but with a tighter, more modern feel to it.
• Vintage. Marshall Superlead/JCM800. Again tighter feel than Mercury, and less aggressive highs.
• Classic. JCM800 -> Diezel VH4. You can also get Mesa Recto style tones from this one.
• Modern. I think it's supposed to be kinda like a Mesa Mark series sound but I still don't get along with it.

I think with both Amp 1 models it's best to attach "this amp-ish" to the description because they are not meant to be 1:1 replicas of anything, but more like in the ballpark.

There's also plenty of overlap between the two amps, and the big differentiator is the feel.

• Mercury = classic Marshall, even on the Modern channel. Looser, more unruly, old school.
• Iridium = modern. Tight, aggressive, immediate.

Here's how BluGuitar themselves describe the custom control behavior of each channel on the Amp 1 models:

The Custom Controls of the AMP1 Mercury Edition

All channels of the AMP1 Mercury Edition - with the exception of the pure Vintage overdrive channel - have infinitely variable sound filters with which eac

support.bluguitar.com

The Custom Controls of the AMP1 Iridium Edition

All of the channels on the AMP1 Iridium Edition - with the exception of the Vintage overdrive channel - have infinitely adjustable sound filters with which

support.bluguitar.com

You can also check out their Sound Finder for settings based on artist or amp type, with video clips from BluGuitar's livestreams.

The Sound Finder - BluGuitar

for AMP1 Mercury Edition and AMP1 Iridium Edition

support.bluguitar.com

So those two amps alone cover so much ground that I don't think anyone would have issues finding most of the tones they want, unless they are heavily into Vox or maybe Hiwatt style amps I suppose.

The Blubox cab sim also has some really good IRs in it, so having those in the Amp X will cover a lot of ground despite not having all the movable mic shenanigans and whatnot. I wish I had kept the one I bought really cheap, it was a really straightforward little box.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

"There’s something incredibly satisfying about playing through this amp": Laney Lionheart Foundry Super 60 112 review

This Laney might be tube-less, but still manages to deliver the roar we’ve come to expect from its fan-favourite Lionheart combo

www.musicradar.com

This is a cheaper amp

I've been wanting to check out the Laney pedal amps, especially the Lionheart.

My main amp rig these days is Laney so it would be cool to have a smaller version of it.

 

[paisleywookiee]

If it's the combination of both units, it would be:

Clean - fender based
Vintage Mercury - JTM
Vintage Iridium - Super Lead
Classic Mercury - stock 800
Classic Iridium - modded 800
Modern Mercury- Mesa
Modern Iridium- ENGL

But these are not amp "models", just amps he used as references when voicing the channels. They're not meant to be exact copies of the amps.

Still pretty tasty mix though.