Amazing value.

Eagle said:
Because of all the instruments with fret sprout that I have fixed over the years not a single one had any other related problems.
It’s usually the wood it not dried to 7% or less before use . It is also far more common in unfinished or very lightly finished wood. The graphite rods are a huge deal in the performance. I can’t recall any graphite reinforced necks that I have seen with anything more than a setup or a fret dress to play well.
What do you recommend at this price point and why?
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How would you know what the moisture content of the wood was during construction of an instrument brought to you to deal with fret sprout?
 
I keep kicking around maybe grabbing a super Strat but I’ve just never been a terribly fast or elegant player. It’d be like giving a sloth a race car.

Also not shocked you might find a QC issue or two on these. My American Fenders and Gibsons all needed fret dressings and recrowns from the factory to play their best. I just accept that as a necessity at this point.
 
Eagle said:
Cosmetics is one thing but they are fundamentally sound. Sire is so far behind that it’s not true. Different species and different densities is ok under the 3mm plastic dip. Beautifully polished for the pot metal hardware and $5 pickups.
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You're kinda losing the thread here. On one hand you're saying it's not cosmetics they look at but, what, go around thumping wood and listening for resonant frequencies? On the other hand you're admitting they're pumping out guitars without even drying the wood properly.
Different species? So what.

I'm happy if you're happy, but I don't believe there's anything of special value on this Charvel compared to Sire, or Cort, or Ibanez, or Solar... Within their price ranges, off course a 1000€ guitar will have more expensive pickups than a 500€ guitar.
They are all mass produced products, nobody is hand picking wood for them, they all get dried to the same percentage, for all we know in the same dryer model.
I'm only talking about wood so much since you apparently find that to be the prime evidence.

For those that don't care about tonewood on electric guitars what's left are good pickups, 20$ of electronics, and a rushed out guitar for which you have to try 10 of them to get a good one without redoing on it what was supposed to be done in the factory.
For a 1000€ I'm right back to manure.

Btw, i just have to ask, on how many Sires did you measure the finish thickness to come to 3mm number? Also, on how many Charvels?

Disclaimer: I don't own a Sire, just that arguments written so far about one guitars superiority and another inferiority sound like a lot of smoke and mirrors.
 
Alex Kenivel said:
Fret sprout can be fixed and electronics can be replaced, but those skinny little necks aren't going to fatten up with a few cheeseburgers so Charvel gets a hard pass from me even through I like the looks.
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I’m a chunky neck guy too so that’s what usually stops me with these. They are a dream for the skinny neck crowd though.

I’ve considered slapping together a partscaster version with a fatter profile.
 
EOengineer said:
Are the fretboard edges rolled on these bad boys?
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My DK22 ProMod roasted maple has slightly rolled edges, as I mentioned its a very comfortable neck to play

1688329803861.png
 
norminal said:
In the end [insert your favorite guitar player here] could release an album that was recorded with a Sire or Harley Benton and not a single person would know better. Period.

Simply put, if it plays well and sounds good, NOTHING, including wood, electronics, etc. matters.
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I agree for the most part.

I just watched 3 Saga videos. In the first , he plays a P90 LP, the 2nd, a superstrat of some sort, and the 3rd, and EBMM Silhouette. He (Ian Crichton) has a pretty unique guitar tone, and in all of the videos, it sounded exactly the same.
 
TSJMajesty said:
I agree for the most part.

I just watched 3 Saga videos. In the first , he plays a P90 LP, the 2nd, a superstrat of some sort, and the 3rd, and EBMM Silhouette. He (Ian Crichton) has a pretty unique guitar tone, and in all of the videos, it sounded exactly the same.
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Ian is a monster player, saw them back in the 80's what a great show



This is super Strat that hes used very often (Lado Guitars)

1688331708415.png
 
How many Vai fans would have thought this song was recorded on a hollow body and not a Jem/Pia before watching this video?

 
Eagle said:
The fret sprout issue is partly because of the little to no finish on the necks . It is very easy to deal with though and wouldn’t put me off . They are probably not drying the wood enough but with graphite reinforcement rods it’s going nowhere . Think of Charvel being a 2k guitar that is not completely finished . The materials and specs are easily that price from anyone else.
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Ok, that’s reassuring.
I could easily live with a Charvel.. it played so smooth.
 
the-trooper said:
You're kinda losing the thread here. On one hand you're saying it's not cosmetics they look at but, what, go around thumping wood and listening for resonant frequencies? On the other hand you're admitting they're pumping out guitars without even drying the wood properly.
Different species? So what.

I'm happy if you're happy, but I don't believe there's anything of special value on this Charvel compared to Sire, or Cort, or Ibanez, or Solar... Within their price ranges, off course a 1000€ guitar will have more expensive pickups than a 500€ guitar.
They are all mass produced products, nobody is hand picking wood for them, they all get dried to the same percentage, for all we know in the same dryer model.
I'm only talking about wood so much since you apparently find that to be the prime evidence.

For those that don't care about tonewood on electric guitars what's left are good pickups, 20$ of electronics, and a rushed out guitar for which you have to try 10 of them to get a good one without redoing on it what was supposed to be done in the factory.
For a 1000€ I'm right back to manure.

Btw, i just have to ask, on how many Sires did you measure the finish thickness to come to 3mm number? Also, on how many Charvels?

Disclaimer: I don't own a Sire, just that arguments written so far about one guitars superiority and another inferiority sound like a lot of smoke and mirrors.
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It’s not just Sire ,Epiphone Korea and China are just as bad. Everything I have seen from them,too many if you include the bass line too. Over a hundred. Charvel paint is about the same thickness as Suhr uses and thinner than MIM Fender which is odd considering. I have refinished many MIM Fenders with a thin hard finish and it always brings them to life. $1000 is very cheap for a decent musical instrument and at this price I expect corners will be cut. I think you are better buying something that you can uncut them aftermarket so that means the fundamentals will need to be there.
If you don’t care or can’t tell the difference then that’s fine too because it is only about pleasing yourself and if you’re happy with what you have you will probably play better and hopefully the audience will notice that.
 
Eagle said:
It’s not just Sire ,Epiphone Korea and China are just as bad. Everything I have seen from them,too many if you include the bass line too. Over a hundred. Charvel paint is about the same thickness as Suhr uses and thinner than MIM Fender which is odd considering. I have refinished many MIM Fenders with a thin hard finish and it always brings them to life. $1000 is very cheap for a decent musical instrument and at this price I expect corners will be cut. I think you are better buying something that you can uncut them aftermarket so that means the fundamentals will need to be there.
If you don’t care or can’t tell the difference then that’s fine too because it is only about pleasing yourself and if you’re happy with what you have you will probably play better and hopefully the audience will notice that.
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Andy, curious to hear your thoughts on the PRS SE range if you’ve had a chance to go through some. Thanks!
 
V|J said:
Andy, curious to hear your thoughts on the PRS SE range if you’ve had a chance to go through some. Thanks!
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I didn’t like the Korean versions because the neck shapes were different from the USA ones and not in a good way. The frets were also overly beveled taking away from the playing width. The Indonesian models fixed these issues and are far better imo. I still don’t like the pickups much but I am not a fan of most of the USA PRS pickups either. The hardware is pretty good for budget but noticeably worse than the USA version. The wood is good quality but not really mahogany. On balance they are good quality and feel a lot like the real thing these days. The price has gone up a lot since the beginning but that’s how they have managed to do versions of their core line. I personally don’t like the SE top contouring compared but I understand why it is like that. If they made them look exactly like the core line it would take sales from their own products.
Overall a solid buy but I would still try to find a second hand core model if you can afford it.
 
Eagle said:
It’s not just Sire ,Epiphone Korea and China are just as bad. Ev
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Funny you mentioned Epiphone, because I'm holding one right now. It has a transparent finish, completely the whole back and neck. Finish is paper thin, you can clearly see it and confirm with every screw I've taken out :)
That guitar came absolutely perfect, even the frets are leveled so good I can take it lower than my comfortable playing action. To my complete surprise, it stays in tune, guess that Graphtech nut is doing its job. The news of "inspired by Gibson" series being on a new level were not exaggerated.
It doesn't have Duncan pickups. It doesn't have graphite reinforced neck. Electronics on it are probably 15€, instead of 20€ on the Charvel.
A 650€ guitar that plays out of the box vs. 1000€ which you have to take to a luthier to make it work. I guess we have a different view on "value".

Oh, I forgot, it's and Epiphone, and we've learned about the stigma which is not a small thing to some people.
Oh, and also, Epiphone doesn't have "proper" toanwoods, the "wrong" species and all...
 
the-trooper said:
Funny you mentioned Epiphone, because I'm holding one right now. It has a transparent finish, completely the whole back and neck. Finish is paper thin, you can clearly see it and confirm with every screw I've taken out :)
That guitar came absolutely perfect, even the frets are leveled so good I can take it lower than my comfortable playing action. To my complete surprise, it stays in tune, guess that Graphtech nut is doing its job. The news of "inspired by Gibson" series being on a new level were not exaggerated.
It doesn't have Duncan pickups. It doesn't have graphite reinforced neck. Electronics on it are probably 15€, instead of 20€ on the Charvel.
A 650€ guitar that plays out of the box vs. 1000€ which you have to take to a luthier to make it work. I guess we have a different view on "value".

Oh, I forgot, it's and Epiphone, and we've learned about the stigma which is not a small thing to some people.
Oh, and also, Epiphone doesn't have "proper" toanwoods, the "wrong" species and all...
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Is your Epiphone Indonesian?
The Charvel plays perfectly out of the box too but I want the fret dress to be perfect not just level. This is more than you get normally on $3k+ guitar. Post some pictures or your "Perfect" Epiphone particularly under the control plate and the huge gap around the truss rod under the cover. Indonesian budget Epiphone and PRS are a step up from the Korean and Chinese ones though. Oh and don't forget to add $250 for some pickups that don't suck and that's before we get to the pot metal that passes for "hardware".
 
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V|J said:
Andy, curious to hear your thoughts on the PRS SE range if you’ve had a chance to go through some. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Eagle said:
I didn’t like the Korean versions because the neck shapes were different from the USA ones and not in a good way. The frets were also overly beveled taking away from the playing width. The Indonesian models fixed these issues and are far better imo. I still don’t like the pickups much but I am not a fan of most of the USA PRS pickups either. The hardware is pretty good for budget but noticeably worse than the USA version. The wood is good quality but not really mahogany. On balance they are good quality and feel a lot like the real thing these days. The price has gone up a lot since the beginning but that’s how they have managed to do versions of their core line. I personally don’t like the SE top contouring compared but I understand why it is like that. If they made them look exactly like the core line it would take sales from their own products.
Overall a solid buy but I would still try to find a second hand core model if you can afford it.
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It’s always interesting to see how preferences and opinions vary on instruments.

I’m just a nobody, but I’ve owned 2 PRS SE guitars over the years - an early run Santana SE and a 24-7 custom, both Korean. Both are fantastic guitars.

There are some general criticisms I agree with. Every PRS (SE or otherwise) I’ve picked up has had abysmal pickups. I mean absolutely terrible for anything I ever play.

The necks, however, fit my hand and playing preferences like a glove. Both mine have a somewhat chunky profile that fills the hand perfectly without getting in the way. Additionally, both have had beautifully rolled fretboard edges and great fretwork both in terms of being level but also having great ends. The Korean SE necks are pretty close to Goldilocks territory for me.

My issue with PRS has always been the terrible taste in pickups (either theirs or mine lol), the awful headstock shape, and the tacky ornateness of their finishes and inlays that makes them look like they should only be sold in costume jewelry stores in Florida.
 
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