Alder strats vs swamp ash strats

[vejichan]

Which do you prefer and why?

 

[spawnofthesith]

I have an alder strat and a swamp ash tele and that combo works for me

 

[the-trooper]

Doesn't matter. Toanwood is a myth.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Doesn't matter. Toanwood is a myth.

I don't think it's a myth, however I don't think the species matters as much as the density and weight of a particular piece of wood, all else being equal. That being said, I watched a Warmoth video where Aaron compared two identical guitars, but one with ash, one with alder, and it didn't really matter. Pick the one that's purrty.

 

[DrewJD82]

Ash is more gooder.

Wood trivia- Swamp ash is no different from other types of ash, it’s just the location it’s been cut in and swamp ash generally denotes the wood was taken from the lower portion of the tree that’s generally been submerged longer. The grain patterns vary depending on the health of the tree and weather variations throughout it’s life. My Strat above was most likely from the top portion of an older tree that grew in a climate that didn’t change seasons and lived a long, healthy life. In general, a straighter grain is generally thought to be a stronger piece of wood, offering a little more snap as a “tone wood” but that’s getting into the subjective stuff.

 

[Holden Afart]

Toanwood is a myth.

Sure, just like any note anywhere on a fretted instrument is perfectly in tune.

 

[Holden Afart]

 

[Holden Afart]

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[the-trooper]

Sure, just like any note anywhere on a fretted instrument is perfectly in tune.

On a scale from completely to utterly, how hard would you fail on a blind toanwood test?

 

[ManWithGas]

Okay..... a touchy subject for the many.

With that said, put aside your preferences and your comfort zone instrument.

One last thing, not all of this is 100% conclusive but at least 95% is conclusive and supportable.

Let's start at the very start. An all original early 50s Tele, with a one piece maple neck & swamp body of course, is KING of the
elect guitar world for BIG and BOLD. For the very few that have actually held and played one themselves this sounds like pure BS and
I can understand why. They're as rare as rocking horse shite and very few people actually sell them, especially the good ones.
If you've played one you WILL know what's being said here.

Next up is a 55 Strat (swampy again) where the pickups changed from the 1954 Strat but the rest of the guitar is identical.
Again, rare as rocking horse shite and if you've ever played an original yourself, you'd get it about swamp. You rarely see them for sale and for good reason.

The above 2 are absolutes and with the rest of the years and variations between Alder and Swamp it's a TOTAL crap shoot as it's the combination of parts and ESPECIALLY and SO IMPORTANTLY how the neck is bolted to the body. Neck angles and neck wood on body wood connection in the heel pocket. Saddle metal, fret metal, nut height, player attack, body resonance etc etc and the list goes on and on. Pickups? Certainly a factor but they're supposed to amplify what they HEAR from the guitar itself. Sure, you can fook with the pups and make variations to achieve 'something' but then you've 'altered' the upstream natural outcome of the physical guitar.

After playing guitars now for at least 300 - 400yrs and going through EVERYTHING that was made I have for 'me' a simple and consistent recipe for the guitar I want to play and hear. This combination covers all types of music..........................yes, including death metal.

1) A 3 pickup Strat
2) Pickups = doesn't matter (within reason)
3) Neck = 7.25 radius, One Piece maple OR a super thin rosewood veneer fretboard
4) Frets = 6150
5) Bridge saddles = cold rolled steel like the originals of the 50s/60s. VERY IMPORTANT how the string exits the block over the saddle. The string MUST NOT touch the tremolo plate or saddle 'opening' when going over the saddle. The string runs hollow through the trem block BEFORE it curves ONLY over the saddle itself and nowhere else whatsoever.
6) Tremelo with 'original 50s/60s trem claw springs VERY IMPORTANT the springs are (Raw Vintage made some about 15yrs ago and they were AS GOOD as the originals)
7) Body = Light weight Swamp Ash where possible but I can settle on light weight Alder
8) Strings = 9-42
9) Action = VERY HIGH
10) Neck relief = a fully open truss rod. (No neck straightening by the rod as you don't want to dampen the natural neck resonance at all)
11) An Ilitch Noiseless backplate (Never play a Strat without one)
https://www.ilitchelectronics.com/hum-canceling-systems/strat-bpncs/

The above is somewhat detailed but it makes the world of difference if done.

A difficult guitar to play but it rings like an acoustic guitar and when amplified it's a cannon.

That's my 2 cents worth for those who love this shite.

One final thing I must say............at the end of the day a GOOD song with GOOD vocals can't be beat so that's REALLY where we should ALL spend our time focusing on as THAT matters far more than any guitar.

 

[mbenigni]

Neck angles and neck wood on body wood connection in the heel pocket.

This is an important point. When I think about it, I got my "alder body/ maple neck/ ebony board is the way" prejudice from a single guitar, but that guitar was all about the neck to body joint:

Amazing tone before you even plug in.

 

[spawnofthesith]

3) Neck = 7.25 radius

Sounds sus, I read on TGP that NOONE likes or can play a 7.25 radius if they even dream of bending and the AVRI II line is doomed to fail because of this. Are you sure you aren't an FMIC plant?

 

[ManWithGas]

Sounds sus, I read on TGP that NOONE likes or can play a 7.25 radius if they even dream of bending and the AVRI II line is doomed to fail because of this. Are you sure you aren't an FMIC plant?

The mere mention of Malmsteen should put your suspicions to rest. 7.25 is for the accomplished player.

 

[spawnofthesith]

The mere mention of Malmsteen should put your suspicions to rest. 7.25 is for the accomplished player.

I'm personally a compound radius guy (although I can make any radius work for me) but the amount of whining over there about the american vintage line have *gasp* vintage radius is mindblowing. Especially with so many other options with 9.5+ available. Of course, people clutch their pearls over there over anything Fender does so I shouldnt be surprised

 

[DrewJD82]

The mere mention of Malmsteen should put your suspicions to rest. 7.25 is for the accomplished player.

Don’t Yngwie Strats come with a 9.5” radius and jumbo frets?

People made the same claims about Gilmour not having an issue bending on a 7.25” neck until I posted this pic that clearly shows he refrets his guitars with larger frets than the vintage frets that came with the AVRI‘s-

They might play just fine with brand new frets, but once those things start wearing down, it‘s time to start jacking up the action. My Classic 50’s Strat is being used for spare parts right now because I spent all of $300 on it and it needs a re-fret because it’s fretting out bending anywhere above the 15th fret. I mean, how am I supposed to rip off Gilmour if I can’t bend the B-string at the 15th fret a whole step? That’s like 80% of his solos right there. (Quick answer- a 12” radius and med/jumbo frets!)

I absolutely adore 50’s Strats and have been fortunate enough to play some amazing ones, the radius and fret size are literally the only things I would change on any Strat made from ‘54-‘59, everything else is flawless, IMO.

 

[spawnofthesith]

This shall now be called "The Boomer Bend Paradox"

 

[ManWithGas]

Don’t Yngwie Strats come with a 9.5” radius and jumbo frets?

People made the same claims about Gilmour not having an issue bending on a 7.25” neck until I posted this pic that clearly shows he refrets his guitars with larger frets than the vintage frets that came with the AVRI‘s-

View attachment 1997

They might play just fine with brand new frets, but once those things start wearing down, it‘s time to start jacking up the action. My Classic 50’s Strat is being used for spare parts right now because I spent all of $300 on it and it needs a re-fret because it’s fretting out bending anywhere above the 15th fret. I mean, how am I supposed to rip off Gilmour if I can’t bend the B-string at the 15th fret a whole step? That’s like 80% of his solos right there. (Quick answer- a 12” radius and med/jumbo frets!)

I absolutely adore 50’s Strats and have been fortunate enough to play some amazing ones, the radius and fret size are literally the only things I would change on any Strat made from ‘54-‘59, everything else is flawless, IMO.

There are many misconceptions about a 7.25 and who plays them etc etc....

Firstly, most people complained about a 7.25 but it was really the complaint of such low frets on an original which caused many players to smear a bent note because of finger slippage and not the radius.

Add to that, many guitars have been refretted and MANY have planed fingerboards to get rid of the dreaded 12-14 fret hump, on the treble side, caused OVER TIME due to how the neck is bolted to the guitar. Pressure, pressure and MORE pressure as time goes by and aided by humidity too. So, we then have a compound radius by default and these players continue to play their 7.25 without issue or complaint.

Blackmore's solution, back in the day, about small low frets was the famous scalloping but the radius was kept intact and look how he turned out playing a 7.25 on record. Malmsteen then follows Blackmore but yes, Fender for tooling purpose and NO public whinging/complaints makes them a 9.5 as you said. Malmsteen's are most likely 7.25 I'd wager.

I could go on and on but suffice to say.........KEEP the 7.25 and put 6150 fretwire on it and have a SERIOUS luthier set it up properly and you'll never want to play anything other than a 7.25. Leo made 7.25s for a reason and that reason is still valid today along with the rest of the guitar. Fretwire was an afterthought back in the day for the most part hence only 3 common varieties existed. Gibson wire, Fender wire and Banjo/Acoustic wire. Now we have a gazillion versions/sizes available.

Play a good set up 7.25 and see what you think thereafter.

 

[DrewJD82]

There are many misconceptions about a 7.25 and who plays them etc etc....

Firstly, most people complained about a 7.25 but it was really the complaint of such low frets on an original which caused many players to smear a bent note because of finger slippage and not the radius.

Add to that, many guitars have been refretted and MANY have planed fingerboards to get rid of the dreaded 12-14 fret hump, on the treble side, caused OVER TIME due to how the neck is bolted to the guitar. Pressure, pressure and MORE pressure as time goes by and aided by humidity too. So, we then have a compound radius by default and these players continue to play their 7.25 without issue or complaint.

Blackmore's solution, back in the day, about small low frets was the famous scalloping but the radius was kept intact and look how he turned out playing a 7.25 on record. Malmsteen then follows Blackmore but yes, Fender for tooling purpose and NO public whinging/complaints makes them a 9.5 as you said. Malmsteen's are most likely 7.25 I'd wager.

I could go on and on but suffice to say.........KEEP the 7.25 and put 6150 fretwire on it and have a SERIOUS luthier set it up properly and you'll never want to play anything other than a 7.25. Leo made 7.25s for a reason and that reason is still valid today along with the rest of the guitar. Fretwire was an afterthought back in the day for the most part hence only 3 common varieties existed. Gibson wire, Fender wire and Banjo/Acoustic wire. Now we have a gazillion versions/sizes available.

Play a good set up 7.25 and see what you think thereafter.

I’ve played great setup 7.25” Strats and Teles before, like I said, I’ve gotten to play a good amount of 50’s Strats (and Teles) that were fantastic. It’s not a comfort thing for me, it’s a “I don’t have to deal with it, so I don’t.” thing.

 

[ManWithGas]

I’ve played great setup 7.25” Strats and Teles before, like I said, I’ve gotten to play a good amount of 50’s Strats (and Teles) that were fantastic. It’s not a comfort thing for me, it’s a “I don’t have to deal with it, so I don’t.” thing.

Each to their own as they say.