.

Then you think that quite a few people with pretty impressive guitar playing credentials are not objective.


While both can be made to sound good (at least to my ear), it is easier for a person used to dealing with a tube amp and pedals to get the Kemper into the desired "tone" than the Helix (or Fractal for that matter). I know many people that would argue that the Helix in particular is simply not capable of reaching the same raw tube amp tone as either Fractal or Kemper. It is only when you bring the Helix considerable processing and efx capabilities to bear that a "good" sound is achieved (even by your own example). Many would argue that this "good" sound, while still a "good" sound is not the sound and behavior of a real tube amp.... but is still good.


Never said or even eluded to such an utterly absurd statement.

I contend that MOST guitarist that gig, are NOT tweakers. They (as a statistical group) are interested in characteristics of traditional tube amps with respect to the ability to cut through the mix and sit in the mix nicely playing live. They are interested in pedalboard visibility, workflow, and usability including ergonomics, spill-over, and patch switching times as well as workflow enhancing features for a live performance.

Tweakers, on the other hand generally could care less what kind of foot controller the guitar processor has since they will (NEARLY ALWAYS) be using a PC to manipulate the plethora of settings and routings that the device offers. They are (statistically speaking) most interested in what kinds of sounds they can get and delight in creativity of new and original ways of processing a guitar that result in original sounds while being only mildly interested in re-creating the sound of a traditional raw tube amp tone.

It is not unreasonable to expect that a profiler with a good live pedalboard workflow would be preferred by a live musician while a great PC editor and superior flexibility of a modeler would be preferred by a tweaker.

Before everyone here gets their panties all in a bunch, I have seen the Helix used well in a live gig on more than one occasion. That still doesn't make it a superior tool to the Kemper for live use. It only means that you CAN achieve a good live result with it.

FYI, pay careful attention to what the OP said. See where he is coming from and think about what features would be most useful to him and be easiest to use. He isn't asking what your favorite modeler/profiler is. He is asking which one would best fit his needs.
(1) Of course loads of super amazing supercalfragilisticexpialidotious guitarists are not objective.
(2) I wanna see your excel spreadsheets on all these statistical significances you keep talking about
(3) There is nothing about the Kemper that makes it easier for straightforward amp/cab tones for all people used to working with tube amps. Honestly, for direct tones, I find it harder, because you have BOTH aspects of dialing in a tone perma-linked. So often I'd find a profile where the amp had the breakup and dynamic characteristics I was looking for but it was tied to a cab whose frequency response I really did not like. Others have a different experience. Because different people prefer working in different ways, as hard as that concept may be for you to understand.
(4) We paid careful attention to what the OP said, and the Kemper is at a minimum, 35% beyond his proposed budget.
 
@Boudoir Guitar absolutely nailed it.

Personally I think for the OP, looking to dip your toe into modeling, it’s not worth worrying about profiling vs modeling or whatever. In your budget there’s no profiler with effects. So realistically you’re looking at things like pod go, hx stomp, boss gx100, headrush, etc.

Profilers are best for people that either have their own amps and cabs they want to capture or for people who don’t mind digging through profiles to find the best sound.

Modelers on the other hand don’t require external profiles, so may be easier to manage all in the box.

I think the biggest key is getting your monitoring dialed in. If you are using crappy speakers in a bad room, almost everything will sound bad. If you use good speakers in a treated room, almost everything will sound good.
 
There are ways around that…I’ve always used Kemper with the cabsection locked….running DI profiles.
Bit atypical probably ;)
Simular with the QC…I made my presets into real speakers…and choose a cab as icing on the cake. Else I probably end up in frustration cause my sounds are all over the place cause of different cabs. More and more I’m looking at “diversity” to be rather a curse then a blessing.
Yeah, similar to my experience with just turning the cab block off in Kemper and running straight into cab. :guiness
 
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Capturing/profiling creates a system response. In math terms, it builds a Laplace transform of the system response of the amp and cab (look up signal and system processing if you want to really get your head in a bind, then think of the Kemper as building the function H(s)).
Which is a model nonetheless—although one very limited in scope. Hence the term snapshot. Based off frequency analysis. Not to be confused with component modeling.
 
1. Budget $500-$750
2. Live only, for recording will use presets built into DAW
3. Both P.A. speakers and guitar amps
4. Not really a lot, just basics like delay, reverb, chorus, phaser, auto-wah and tremelo
5. Not at first maybe after using it awhile

In all seriousness, surely these critera are simply satisfied by a Boss Katana?

Might as well try the new Gen 3 100w and you'd still have some cash leftover. $399.99.

Or take a step up to the Katana Gen 3 Artist 100w and a nicer speaker to boot @ $599.99
 
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They are (statistically speaking) most interested in what kinds of sounds they can get and delight in creativity of new and original ways of processing a guitar that result in original sounds while being only mildly interested in re-creating the sound of a traditional raw tube amp tone.
I can assure you, I never, ever, ever "delight".

Before everyone here gets their panties all in a bunch...
Let me stop you right there: "panties in a bunch" is on my "Phrases That Indicate the Rest of This Sentence Can and Probably Should Be Ignored" list. ;)
 
No matter how "streamlined" you try to make this process because you don't want to do anything that's "hard"; you are going to have to put in some work. With a bunch of devices.
 
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