When do you predict the next Fractal Audio Axe iteration will drop, now that they've stated that it will be NAM-compatible? (Poll added)

What's Your Prediction?

  • Within 6 months

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Within 6 months to 1 year

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Within 1-2 years

    Votes: 8 57.1%

  • Over two years

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Soon...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    14
Seems like folks are mixin' it up these days like at TOP. I like it better here when we acted like in the before times . . .

Now
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Before Times
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I love arguing over NAM compatibility when its already confirmed :rofl
There was another guy on facebook who was on his high horse about how Fractal would never worry about captures or doing anything in that realm... total genius.
 
I'd be interested in NAM capabilities for the Axe FX. I wish it could be done in the 3. I'm guessing it isn't a case of DSP resources, rather storage concerns. The Axe3 seems to have very little storage capabilities.
 
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In a previous thread like this, I thought a touchscreen was a must for a next gen device, but after owning the AM4 for a bit I think it might not be.

The problems​


The big annoyance on the FM3, FM9 and Axe-Fx 3 compared to the AM4 and VP4 is navigation and block management.
  • The physical control layout is downright terrible. The nav buttons are spaced too far apart, other controls are cluttered around the big knob, the buttons often don't do what the labels say and the under screen knobs are cramped.
  • The grid is a huge pain in the ass to navigate. Move cursor - Enter - Exit - move cursor - Enter - Exit. The AM4 simplifying this to a scroll knob and 4 blocks already takes out a major pain point, because it's faster to get to the next thing.
  • Moving blocks is the worst UI design in the unit. Instead of "pick up and place" like a sensible design, it's "choose and execute function". AM4 with the simple "hold Enter and scroll" makes it child's play in the rare case when you need to do it.
  • The block cycling shortcut order is completely unintuitive. Column -> row rather than "what is connected next".
  • Nobody likes the "shunts" system for connecting blocks. AM4 doing away with it entirely streamlines everything.
While I don't love the scroll knob on the AM4, I don't think I would be massively faster with it if I were to tap and swipe on the screen. The Expert view also helps curate the controls better, and having some models combined is a huge help as well.

So what can Fractal do to make their next gen device better to use?
  • Node based grid. You connect blocks, not grid slots. It can still be arranged like a grid, but you should never have to put in a "shunt" block.
  • Fixed input and output positions on the grid. It is a bit odd to have to add these yourself, instead of just choosing which inputs and outputs are used.
  • Pick and place block movement system. Makes sense on a touchscreen.
  • Better physical control layout. I'd like to see better spaced knobs under a screen, and the return of some of the dedicated buttons that give you fast access to important systems. A Helix style Amp button would be great, similar to how Amp mode footswitch shortcut on the AM4 gives immediate access to the Amp block.
  • Overhaul the modifier system. It needs a simple vs expert view treatment because it's too complicated for most users.
  • The scene modifier system is ass. It also needs to be made fast and simple to use.
  • Make the footswitch system easier. It's very programmable - but feels like a system for engineers rather than guitarists. Offer some templates that cover most users needs - e.g switching for presets + scenes, effects + scenes and so on similar to how Helix Stadium has a combo mode.
  • On-board favorites.
  • Better global blocks for Sascha. ;)
That said, a touchscreen is going to be a thing just to keep up with what the competition is doing. But I think they could've continued without one by just fixing some core concepts in the system that make it slow to work with without the editor software.

Speculation for release​


So I still think a lot of work is to be done on the user interface front, and that's where it will take them the longest as many pieces from Axe-Fx 3 cannot be just used as is but have to be rewritten from scratch. That pushes the timeline further away. The tariff madness and other world volatility doesn't help in finding the right time to release. I don't know if the RAM pricing issues affect Fractal as afaik modelers usually use older DDR3.

The software is likely to share a huge chunk of modeling code with the Axe-Fx 3. Cliff has spent years making it, and writing it from scratch would be a huge ordeal. Improved modeling still trickling in is an indicator that some of the Axe-Fx IV tech can be achieved on the current gen. I think at some point Cliff reaches a limit to what can be brought to Axe-Fx 3 and shifts entirely to Axe-Fx IV development.

The AM4 and VP4 are clearly interim products that aim to answer some of the biggest user demands: Making it easier to use and physically smaller. Being cheaper with one more footswitch than the FM3 are nice bonuses. I think they will be Fractal's best sellers for the next few years - and give them a lot of time to catch up to the competition.

I thought the Helix Stadium would dominate the field, but it's not polished enough and doesn't have big enough advantages over the competition yet. But it might get there by the end of the year if Line6 keeps pushing out updates every 3-4 months. Until then, Fractal is IMO still the best for pure sound quality.

My guess is that the next gen Fractal might come in 2027 at the earliest, possibly all the way in 2028.
 
Orvillain said:
I'd be interested in NAM capabilities for the Axe FX. I wish it could be done in the 3. I'm guessing it isn't a case of DSP resources, rather storage concerns. The Axe3 seems to have very little storage capabilities.
Click to expand...
Yep, I think the three has enough power to do a lot more than it does now, but lack of storage ruins it.......too bad.
 
Rock Chalk said:
Yep, I think the three has enough power to do a lot more than it does now, but lack of storage ruins it.......too bad.
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The Dynacabs take a lot of space so that's why they have limited number of mic and position options compared to Cab Lab 4.

So if that rumor about the next one having an SSD are true, that makes total sense. A cheap SSD is a good way to add all the storage needed. I doubt it's going to be e.g a M.2 part that could be upgraded tho.
 
Orvillain said:
The Axe3 seems to have very little storage capabilities.
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I don't think that's necessarily a fair characterization. It will hold a bazillion IRs, but not a bazillion+1, and the Fractal cab implementation already requires storage of a bazillion IRs. At this point its probably a question of "is reworking how we use the storage space on this thing, which necessarily will involve scaling back the cab block options, going to give us enough boost to justify the cost/pain of doing that." So I would say its less that the III has "little storage capabilities" and more "the III has grown into a storage hungry MFer w/ dynacabs and capability of 1.5+second IRs, etc., so there's not much left for holding anything else."
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
I don't think that's necessarily a fair characterization. It will hold a bazillion IRs, but not a bazillion+1, and the Fractal cab implementation already requires storage of a bazillion IRs. At this point its probably a question of "is reworking how we use the storage space on this thing, which necessarily will involve scaling back the cab block options, going to give us enough boost to justify the cost/pain of doing that." So I would say its less that the III has "little storage capabilities" and more "the III has grown into a storage hungry MFer w/ dynacabs and capability of 1.5+second IRs, etc., so there's not much left for holding anything else."
Click to expand...
What is a "bazillion" ?

At any rate, designing and releasing a device in 2018 without some kind of ability to increase storage via SD cards, turns out to be quite a short-sighted decision. Not just for Fractal.

For modern day requirements, extensive storage capabiilities are becoming a requirement; not an option.
 
[Nathan] said:
I love arguing over NAM compatibility when its already confirmed :rofl
There was another guy on facebook who was on his high horse about how Fractal would never worry about captures or doing anything in that realm... total genius.
Click to expand...

The discussion isn't whether or not it's coming to the next gen (it is), but whether Fractal NEEDS to have it to move forward. They honestly don't-Cliff has spent the last couple of decades working tirelessly on component level modeling. That is what Fractal is all about.
 
Frodebro said:
That is what Fractal is all about.
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That's what you think Fractal is all about. But being amazeballs in one area, doesn't sell product. Which is why Fractal have gone to great lengths to be excellent in a whole bunch of areas. But the one area they're not excellent in is usability.
 
Orvillain said:
That's what you think Fractal is all about. But being amazeballs in one area, doesn't sell product. Which is why Fractal have gone to great lengths to be excellent in a whole bunch of areas. But the one area they're not excellent in is usability.
Click to expand...

What I meant is that this is where Cliff has spent a shitload of time and made a name for himself and his company. So in saying 'Fractal,' I was actually referring to Cliff. We see a LOT more comparisons between digital units and tube amps than we do digital units and effects pedals. That seems to be where the attention remains, because it's still an ongoing online debate (NOTHING WILL EVAH BE ASS GOOD ASS MAH TOOOOOB AMPSSS).
 
Frodebro said:
The discussion isn't whether or not it's coming to the next gen (it is), but whether Fractal NEEDS to have it to move forward. They honestly don't-Cliff has spent the last couple of decades working tirelessly on component level modeling. That is what Fractal is all about.
Click to expand...
While I agree that captures are largely unnecessary on Fractal due to its sheer amount of amp models and the competency of their component modeling, some sort of capture tech starts to be table stakes. Even cheaper units like Hotone and Headrush have it - even if the results are not NAM-grade.

So besides development time and storage needs, supporting NAM is beneficial for Fractal. Plus they can go tell people clamoring for this and that model to go buy the amp and capture it themselves. I don't think Fractal is very keen to buy new amps coming out, painstakingly reverse engineer them without schematics etc.

It's been shown that few people request old classics, most people request what they saw hyped on YT last week.
 
Frodebro said:
What I meant is that this is where Cliff has spent a shitload of time and made a name for himself and his company. So in saying 'Fractal,' I was actually referring to Cliff. We see a LOT more comparisons between digital units and tube amps than we do digital units and effects pedals. That seems to be where the attention remains, because it's still an ongoing online debate (NOTHING WILL EVAH BE ASS GOOD ASS MAH TOOOOOB AMPSSS).
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I mean .... yeah, none of this shit is as good as my valve amps.
 
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