What are amp plugins not doing?

[kvik]

No one said that. You were saying that you need a $2000 computer. I'd be amazed if what you had already isn't sufficient

I have the latest and greatest PC workstation laptop. Out of the box it wasn't even suitable for basic playback through my audio interfaces without subtle cuts and pops, let alone trying to do actual audio work on it. I spent several days investigating what the issue is, buying expensive USB cables, measuring driver interrupt latencies, disabling every power management thing under the sun, until I randomly found out that I should try disabling "Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery" device, which fixed the audio issues but created a bunch of others such as the laptop sometimes forgetting to go to sleep when I close the lid and then overheating in my backpack.

I'm not entirely clueless about computers, so I struggle to imagine how this would go for someone who just wants to play some guitar plugins...

Given this experience, what kind of idiot would I have to be to trust this rig with my live performance? How many ICONS can I run before we get back to audio popping city?

That's why my conclusion is that one should buy a $XXXX Mac rig if they don't want to deal with this kind of bullshit.

Having a preference for HW is fine but it's probably better to focus on genuine reasons rather than a made up justification for it

I just have a preference for reliable and dependable things that have proven to work in many different scenarios. Plugins are not it for me for making guitar sounds.

 

[RiffDuck]

I have the latest and greatest PC workstation laptop. Out of the box it wasn't even suitable for basic playback through my audio interfaces without subtle cuts and pops, let alone trying to do actual audio work on it. I spent several days investigating what the issue is, buying expensive USB cables, measuring driver interrupt latencies, disabling every power management thing under the sun, until I randomly found out that I should try disabling "Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery" device, which fixed the audio issues but created a bunch of others such as the laptop sometimes forgetting to go to sleep when I close the lid and then overheating in my backpack.

I'm not entirely clueless about computers, so I struggle to imagine how this would go for someone who just wants to play some guitar plugins...

Given this experience, what kind of idiot would I have to be to trust this rig with my live performance? How many ICONS can I run before we get back to audio popping city?

That's why my conclusion is that one should buy a $XXXX Mac rig if they don't want to deal with this kind of bullshit.

I just have a preference for reliable and dependable things that have proven to work in many different scenarios. Plugins are not it for me for making guitar sounds.

Yeah but your opinion here would be more appropriately worded as "plugins don't work well for me because I have some fucked up computer issue I can't figure out", not because they're inherently bad.

 

[kvik]

Yeah but your opinion here would be more appropriately worded as "plugins don't work well for me because I have some fucked up computer issue I can't figure out", not because they're inherently bad.

Which is why this is exactly how I worded it: https://thegearforum.com/threads/what-are-amp-plugins-not-doing.11223/post-478463

 

[ian_dissonance]

I have the latest and greatest PC workstation laptop. Out of the box it wasn't even suitable for basic playback through my audio interfaces without subtle cuts and pops, let alone trying to do actual audio work on it. I spent several days investigating what the issue is, buying expensive USB cables, measuring driver interrupt latencies, disabling every power management thing under the sun, until I randomly found out that I should try disabling "Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery" device, which fixed the audio issues but created a bunch of others such as the laptop sometimes forgetting to go to sleep when I close the lid and then overheating in my backpack.

I'm not entirely clueless about computers, so I struggle to imagine how this would go for someone who just wants to play some guitar plugins...

Given this experience, what kind of idiot would I have to be to trust this rig with my live performance? How many ICONS can I run before we get back to audio popping city?

That's why my conclusion is that one should buy a $XXXX Mac rig if they don't want to deal with this kind of bullshit.

I just have a preference for reliable and dependable things that have proven to work in many different scenarios. Plugins are not it for me for making guitar sounds.

An off-the-shelf business “workstation” is not going to be set up for speed. They usually have THE MOST useless shit on them for “productivity” all the settings are made so searches are fast, MS365 programs are always at the ready etc etc. Even off-the-shelf gaming devices need a fair amount of TLC to get the best performance for anything let alone audio. To me this is a red herring. Learning the tools is part of the job if you want to use those tools.

 

[Someoldqueenorother]

My main gripes with plugins and why I stopped using them has less to do with plugins themselves and more with the PC environment in which they work.

• I hate that I have to worry about input level matching.
• I hate that I have to worry about sample rates and buffer sizes.
• I hate that I have to buy a $1000+ audio interface and a $2000+ computer to approach anywhere near reasonable end-to-end latency.
• I hate that I have to basically dedicate that $2000+ computer to playing and recording alone and tune it accordingly to not fuck up at the most inopportune time due to dumb reasons like it going to sleep during recording.
• I hate that despite doing everything above I still can't quite trust the computer, because at the core it's still a generic tin can running generic software not made for any specific purpose and thus with no reasonable way to estimate its limits. The only way to find the limits is by getting screwed and then dialing things down and hoping for the best until next time you make any change.

-Very easy with Fractal Icons and Helix Native.
-Likewise. Set everything to 48Khz and stop worrying.
-I'm running a MOTU M4 bought secondhand for £125 and a PC I built myself with a Ryzen 5 5600G processor. The whole setup is under £1000 and quite likely under $1000.
-Mine is not dedicated.

I have the latest and greatest PC workstation laptop. Out of the box it wasn't even suitable for basic playback through my audio interfaces without subtle cuts and pops, let alone trying to do actual audio work on it. I spent several days investigating what the issue is, buying expensive USB cables, measuring driver interrupt latencies, disabling every power management thing under the sun, until I randomly found out that I should try disabling "Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery" device, which fixed the audio issues but created a bunch of others such as the laptop sometimes forgetting to go to sleep when I close the lid and then overheating in my backpack.

I'm not entirely clueless about computers, so I struggle to imagine how this would go for someone who just wants to play some guitar plugins...

Given this experience, what kind of idiot would I have to be to trust this rig with my live performance? How many ICONS can I run before we get back to audio popping city?

That's why my conclusion is that one should buy a $XXXX Mac rig if they don't want to deal with this kind of bullshit.

I just have a preference for reliable and dependable things that have proven to work in many different scenarios. Plugins are not it for me for making guitar sounds.

Maybe the latest and greatest PC workstation laptop is actually the wrong thing entirely for what you're trying to do. Aside from the desktop, I run three Lenovo Ideapads. All of them are three to four years old, upgraded the RAM in them, bigger storage, and a few little software tweaks.All three of them have flown between the UK, USA, and Argentina. All three of them are set up for audio and all of them can run Helix Native, Reaper, Gig Performer etc without any popping, issues, and the like. The cost of all three with the extra RAM and storage would be around £1,000 in total.

Sometimes less really is more.

 

[laxu]

It's funny you mention UA, because I see it the exact opposite. Normally, I avoid many of their plugins because they're so close to the original hardware's experience (even when that experience sucks like how some API knobs are nested and upside down!). For example, I'd much rather see a frequency plot in FabFilter Pro-Q than deal with the lack of meaningful feedback from something like Manley's Massive Passive.

Conversely, I really like Paradise's UI—it's much faster and easier to use specifically because it's not chasing the 100% perfect skeuomorphic dragon other UA plugins are notorious for.

I agree. I think there's several approaches here:

• Do you want it to be an exact digital replica?
  • I was against e.g Fractal's 5150 "presence knob that does nothing until it's at 7 or above" behavior even if that's accurate to the amp.
  • But on the flipside I'm now kinda wanting a Mesa graphic EQ that has the "bad" behavior of the real thing just so I can match it to my real amp easier.
• Does deviating from the original make for a better approach?
  • I liked how e.g the Victory VC35 wired the Vox high cut control in reverse and labeled it Tone because "higher = brighter" is much more in line with how all the other knobs work.
• Does having superfluous elements really add anything?
  • I don't like skeumorphic UIs having things like screws, rack ears, or input plugs that have no functional meaning. I think you can get the "vibe" of the real product with much less clutter.

 

[Orvillain]

I agree. I think there's several approaches here:

• Do you want it to be an exact digital replica?
  • I was against e.g Fractal's 5150 "presence knob that does nothing until it's at 7 or above" behavior even if that's accurate to the amp.
  • But on the flipside I'm now kinda wanting a Mesa graphic EQ that has the "bad" behavior of the real thing just so I can match it to my real amp easier.
• Does deviating from the original make for a better approach?
  • I liked how e.g the Victory VC35 wired the Vox high cut control in reverse and labeled it Tone because "higher = brighter" is much more in line with how all the other knobs work.
• Does having superfluous elements really add anything?
  • I don't like skeumorphic UIs having things like screws, rack ears, or input plugs that have no functional meaning. I think you can get the "vibe" of the real product with much less clutter.

Yeah but in fairness, you are completely wrong about everything.

 

[RiffDuck]

Yeah but in fairness, you are completely wrong about everything.

I've taken note of how often you duck or run after a comment

 

[Orvillain]

I've taken note of how often you duck or run after a comment

I'm really not.

 

[laxu]

Yeah but in fairness, you are completely wrong about everything.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Delivering new exciting ways of sound sculpting (with some exceptions such as Guitar Rig). Just the same as with modeling hardware. Same lame old amps and pedals all over the place.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I hate that I have to buy a $1000+ audio interface and a $2000+ computer to approach anywhere near reasonable end-to-end latency.

Just that you don't. Mac Mini M4 starts at €699, a Motu M2 kicks in at €240 (extremely decent latency and pretty good Hi-Z inputs). So that's less than €1k.
You can get similar results with Windows boxes but you need to look around more carefully.

 

[bucephalus]

Yeah but your opinion here would be more appropriately worded as "plugins don't work well for me because I have some fucked up computer issue I can't figure out", not because they're inherently bad.

Yeah, I run plugins perfectly fine on an 8 year old Acer Windows laptop, with a 2i2 3rd gen Scarlett, no noticeable (to me) latency.

 

[nitrateaudio]

they are different things. i don't compare them or the playing experience. i appreciate the portability.