Universal Audio Paradise Guitar Studio

[MirrorProfiles]

Everybody and his mum is crying for a consolidated version of the NDSP plugins - but with this one it'd be totally wrong. I don't get it.

The same reason NDSP haven't done it is the same reason UA haven't done it either. Presets wouldn't alleviate the fact that if you just endlessly add gear to a plugin like this you'll end up with 5x different variations of tubescreamers, reverbs that are very similar, BBD's that are similar, and even amps and channels that become redundant. All of the sub categories fill up and it becomes more cumbersome to do anything. Selecting a different plugin is essentially your preset filter and is very simple to do, requiring almost zero effort.

People complain about NDSP not having a container for their plugin, but they also dont want to use things like Helix or Amplitube for a reason. Container type plugins have so many trade offs that dont make it as simple as just bundling them all up and calling it a day. I am absolutely certain the novelty of combining plugins would wear off very quickly and they'd get annoyed at the compromises that have to be made in a plugin like that.

From what I've seen from other "kitchen sink" guitar plugins, I couldn't be more sure that it's a terrible way to go. Helix is the only one I can really tolerate, and even that one puts a lot of people off who are otherwise happy using Archetype style plugins.

 

[laxu]

People complain about NDSP not having a container for their plugin, but they also dont want to use things like Helix or Amplitube for a reason. Container type plugins have so many trade offs that dont make it as simple as just bundling them all up and calling it a day. I am absolutely certain the novelty of combining plugins would wear off very quickly and they'd get annoyed at the compromises that have to be made in a plugin like that.

Once you have gathered a pile of NDSP plugins, I can totally see the appeal of wanting a container plugin, or the ability to mix-and-match parts of different plugins.

It's kind of the same with Paradise vs the UA Amp bundle. It's just that bit extra work to swap between different single amp plugins vs just picking up a different amp and continuing where you left off.

To me it sounds like your compromises with a container plugin have more to do with data management, which is solvable. I have always disliked the NDSP way where you have an "amp view", "cab view", "fx view" etc. Paradise really helps by having an "amp + something else" view at all times.

If the number of options grows large enough, you can present that data in different ways. Folders, grid vs list etc.

My only real beefs with Helix Native are that it doesn't scale and the insane scroll behavior near the sliders.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The same reason NDSP haven't done it is the same reason UA haven't done it either. Presets wouldn't alleviate the fact that if you just endlessly add gear to a plugin like this you'll end up with 5x different variations of tubescreamers, reverbs that are very similar, BBD's that are similar, and even amps and channels that become redundant. All of the sub categories fill up and it becomes more cumbersome to do anything. Selecting a different plugin is essentially your preset filter and is very simple to do, requiring almost zero effort.

You could easily filter things out per suite. Zero issues. Using a different plugin doesn't allow for easy mixing and matching of components.

 

[dk_ace]

I listened to most of the Santiago video last night. Sounded nice to me. I don’t need a plugin though.

I really liked some of the room sounds. That grabbed my attention more than anything.

D

 

[AlbertA]

 

[MirrorProfiles]

To me it sounds like your compromises with a container plugin have more to do with data management, which is solvable. I have always disliked the NDSP way where you have an "amp view", "cab view", "fx view" etc. Paradise really helps by having an "amp + something else" view at all times.

If the number of options grows large enough, you can present that data in different ways. Folders, grid vs list etc.

My only real beefs with Helix Native are that it doesn't scale and the insane scroll behavior near the sliders.

It's not just data management. Everything becomes way more complicated, even if you're only trying to do something simple. Automation and MIDI control assignments need to be done manually, everything ends up needing more clicks and more scrolling. Even with well organised presets, it's not nice to have more and more of them (most are going to be wrong for any one use). I use STL Amphub quite regularly and every month they add new content there. They have a pretty good search, sort and filter option but adding more things doesn't really help - I still have my favourites and defaults and every time its essentially adding more waffle between those - the experience doesn't ever improve by adding more. The way I use Amphub ends up making it more like their Tonality plugins (AKA Archetype). The same is true for Softube Amp Room or Mercuriall Amp Box. The bloat is tedious to use and I end up just bypassing the extra stuff and simplifying it down. Another issue is, even if you make the plugin larger and more complex, they can never quite do everything a DAW can. So if there is a particular effect you are missing, or a specific kind of routing that you need, you're back at square one mixing and matching plugins again.

Try using STL amp hub and look at how many overdrives are essentially a tubesceamer. I think the overdrive category alone has 29 pedals. I'm really not sure that people ACTUALLY prefer using big container plugins - all of the most popular sims these days are not that, and I think thats why people like them (even if they don't realise it).

I think Paradise, and generally peoples want for an all in one solution shows how much a LOT of users rely on presets for their sounds and I think thats largely what the benefit for them is. Paradise's presets are pretty basic chains but that seems to be what people are gravitating for with that plugin. People also seem to love the NDSP presets.

My only real beefs with Helix Native are that it doesn't scale and the insane scroll behavior near the sliders.

These are very valid. Helix has a lot of very small and precise areas to click that you can't really make any bigger. The more complex a plugin gets, the more you have to squeeze in little things here and there, and again, it takes away from the experience.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Using a different plugin doesn't allow for easy mixing and matching of components

It's pretty easy to instantiate a different plugin. and if you need to do some kind of parallel routing, it's a lot more easy. And if you want to do automation, separate plugins are easier. Im not enough of a dork to time myself, but I bet I can instantiate a plugin quicker than selecting a different model within a plugin - I just click the slot and start typing. Inside a plugin there's usually more steps involved.

 

[Sascha Franck]

It's pretty easy to instantiate a different plugin. and if you need to do some kind of parallel routing, it's a lot more easy.

Dude, now you're just talking nonsense. You could as well just open a second instance.

And if you want to do automation, separate plugins are easier.

See above.

but I bet I can instantiate a plugin quicker than selecting a different model within a plugin

That's not what this is about. It's about being able to easily combine things under one hood.
You don't like that, others do. Easy.

 

[nicolasrivera]

@UA.... why the F.... cant we bypass the amp only???

IMO the cabs are about the only thing i can save out of software, unfortunetly i cant use them because it is a global bypass with the amp.

 

[Sascha Franck]

@UA.... why the F.... cant we bypass the amp only???

IMO the cabs are about the only thing i can save out of software, unfortunetly i cant use them because it is a global bypass with the amp.

I'm sure they did that kinda deliberately. Allthough, it's a bit stupid anyway, as people might as well want to use the FX without the amps.

 

[Whizzinby]

I don’t see how adding two amps to Paradise somehow makes it a cumbersome user experience, (Maybe long term scaling is the concern?) but I appreciate @MirrorProfiles desire to boost the economy with consistent, new purchase opportunities.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I don’t see how adding two amps to Paradise somehow makes it a cumbersome user experience, (Maybe long term scaling is the concern?) but I appreciate @MirrorProfiles desire to boost the economy with consistent new purchasing opportunities.

tbf though, its not just two amps. It's also cabs, and all the associated presets. And the presets are really all about mixing and matching, so it's not going to be [300 current presets] + [TS808 + 5150 + Mesa cab]. Their Mesa has all the modes and channels modelled so itll definitely have a lot of presets around it. It all exponentially grows with each piece of gear. Plus, they'll add wahs, pitch shifters, flangers, space echos, DS-1 etc. There's so much other gear that they have to draw a line somewhere.

And yes. It's UA and they will want to squeeze as much money from it as possible. The more code they can repackage and sell to people twice, the better. Its happened with several of their newer plugins already - Verve, Topline, Sound City/Ocean Way all contain content from other plugins with a few sprinklings of new stuff to justify it. Even Century Channel Strip, Pure Plate, Oxide are built off pre-existing products and are just aimed at selling them to a different audience.

They're well aware of the demand for the remaining amps, there's absolutely no way that its going to be sold at a nominal price when they can milk that cash cow dry.

 

[deadpool_25]

You can disable amp/cab or cab. Can’t disable amp only. Which would make it an Ox Box. Which I don’t understand

I wonder if this is actually true. At about 27 minutes in that James Santiago video he has the cab turned off, but the amp is on. Then he switches off the amp using its front panel power switch. If the cab was on and you switched the amp off like that, would it deactivate the cab too or would it leave just the cab active?

 

[Sascha Franck]

First off: I was wrong in #190, you can of course bypass the amp. But:

If the cab was on and you switched the amp off like that, would it deactivate the cab too or would it leave just the cab active?

It's bypassing the cab as well.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I wonder if this is actually true. At about 27 minutes in that James Santiago video he has the cab turned off, but the amp is on. Then he switches off the amp using its front panel power switch. If the cab was on and you switched the amp off like that, would it deactivate the cab too or would it leave just the cab active?

What Sascha said.
I’d been over the moon. First thing I tried.

 

[nicolasrivera]

First off: I was wrong in #190, you can of course bypass the amp. But:



It's bypassing the cab as well.

Thay why people just 'love' UA.

 

[Jarick]

FYI if you're waiting for it to go on sale, it's already on sale from $199 down to $149, and if you have purchased some of the amp plugins already it's down to $79. It likely won't go on sale again until next Thanksgiving which would probably bring it down to $99 (maybe some other sale in the summer). So if you really are interested you may want to pick up now unless it's a really frivolous "nice to have".

 

[Whizzinby]

FYI if you're waiting for it to go on sale, it's already on sale from $199 down to $149, and if you have purchased some of the amp plugins already it's down to $79. It likely won't go on sale again until next Thanksgiving which would probably bring it down to $99 (maybe some other sale in the summer). So if you really are interested you may want to pick up now unless it's a really frivolous "nice to have".

Yeah when I logged in today they were offering it to me for $99.

UA is always in some sort of sales mode. I actually checked to see if they had it in their Custom 2 bundle like the new Ocean Way Deluxe plug, so I could just scoop them both up for a hundo. If you like something by UA you can almost always eventually find it in one fire sale or another.

I’m going to go ahead and start a demo on it today, because their Super Duper Santa This Time We’re Serious savings deals are inevitably right around the corner.

 

[Jarick]

Yeah when I logged in today they were offering it to me for $99.

UA is always in some sort of sales mode. I actually checked to see if they had it in their Custom 2 bundle like the new Ocean Way Deluxe plug, so I could just scoop them both up for a hundo. If you like something by UA you can almost always eventually find it in one fire sale or another.

I’m going to go ahead and start a demo on it today, because their Super Duper Santa This Time We’re Serious savings deals are inevitably right around the corner.

They are always running sales but not always on what you want. I picked up the Apollo last year and nearly picked up the Signature bundle for $299 during the holiday sales. Then it jumped back up to whatever the normal price was. This holiday it's on sale for $349. So price did creep up, although there's more products in it this year.

I ended up grabbing the Spark subscription for $79 because I knew Paradise was going to be in there, plus I wanted the vocal chain plugin and other things. Now I'm putting some of these all over my mix because I can...amongst other thing you have the Neve 1073, Pultec EQ, Distressor, reverbs, all kinds of stuff in addition to the guitar plugs.

I figured for $79 I can test drive all their main plugins for a year and see if I want to buy any next year (or maybe sub again if they run another deal).

 

[laxu]

They are always running sales but not always on what you want.

For this year's sales it's only been I think brand new plugins that are excluded. For the current sale you can get e.g the Ocean Way in the "custom X" bundles that are more expensive than the "Select X" bundles that offer a more limited selection. The "Mix tape" has been the best deal in general.

I fully expect by next summer at the latest, Paradise is likely to be included in some sale. $79 for Enigmatic and effects (I have the other amps already)...kinda on the fence.