TGF Do Something Challenge - Season 11 Week 2

stopsign_01-png.37795

Week 2 of Season 11 is OVER!
Results are posted here! You will also post your Week 3 submits at that link!
Kudos and thanks to those who participated in Weeks 1&2 of Season 11, so glad to have each and every one of you stepping up to the Challenge!!!
You can still comment, like, etc. in this thread if you choose to do so!!​
 
#orig

Almost didn't have time to do one this week, and just got caught up on checking out what everyone has been doing. Great stuff all around!

This one is a song I wrote a long time ago when I was an angry young man, so I'm warning you there are some F bombs in it. The lyrics came back to me a few weeks ago and I threw together a quick demo of it just for fun yesterday and finished it this morning. I probably had more verses back in the day, but here it is, an old man singing about the anger of his youth!

Oh, the tech details, drums are Logic drummer, bass was direct through the UAD console Ampeg sim, and the rhythm guitars were my Les Paul Studio into my Mk IIC+ (left), JP2C (middle), and Synergy Killer Kali (right). Lead was Killer Kali, Vocals are all me with some processing,


I freaking love the guitar solo. Nice song, too.
 
What plugs did you use for this one?
There's an upright piano sound, heavily treated and washed in reverb, using Lekko, by Felt Instruments. That's doubled with a celeste, done with Spitfire Orchestra. The tympani rolls are Spitfire's Hans Zimmer Pro library. I used Spitfire's Albion Solstice for the folk fiddle sound that comes in and out.

The lower midrange arpeggiated synth is Synthmaster 3.

I used 3 instances of Ffosso for all other sounds: the stones rattling, the string sounds that aren't really strings (saturation/slight distortion via Plugin Alliance's Looptrotter Sat2Rate 2). Very low in the mix is an electronic kick I did with Softube Heartbeat.

I used Eventide's Temperance Lite for the Felt piano reverb, in a heavy wash. The overall reverb is ADPTR Utopia.

All instrument tracks were run through SSL's 4000E console emulation; from there into buses where I used SSL's Bus Compressor 2. I generally have buses for piano, strings, orchestral percussion, miscellaneous percussion, synths, and combinations, like the Ffosso stuff.

The stereo bus was treated with SSL/Harrison's mastering EQ, another instance of SSL's Bus Compressor 2,

That's it.
 
There's an upright piano sound, heavily treated and washed in reverb, using Lekko, by Felt Instruments. That's doubled with a celeste, done with Spitfire Orchestra. The tympani rolls are Spitfire's Hans Zimmer Pro library. I used Spitfire's Albion Solstice for the folk fiddle sound that comes in and out.

The lower midrange arpeggiated synth is Synthmaster 3.

I used 3 instances of Ffosso for all other sounds: the stones rattling, the string sounds that aren't really strings (saturation/slight distortion via Plugin Alliance's Looptrotter Sat2Rate 2). Very low in the mix is an electronic kick I did with Softube Heartbeat.

I used Eventide's Temperance Lite for the Felt piano reverb, in a heavy wash. The overall reverb is ADPTR Utopia.

All instrument tracks were run through SSL's 4000E console emulation; from there into buses where I used SSL's Bus Compressor 2. I generally have buses for piano, strings, orchestral percussion, miscellaneous percussion, synths, and combinations, like the Ffosso stuff.

The stereo bus was treated with SSL/Harrison's mastering EQ, another instance of SSL's Bus Compressor 2,

That's it.
Awesome, thanks for the detailed rundown!
I'm not up on ADPTR or Ffosso so will check them out. (y)
 
Awesome, thanks for the detailed rundown!
I'm not up on ADPTR or Ffosso so will check them out. (y)
I wanted to add a few observations, since I mentioned consoles:

I've owned every single emulation of consoles out there over the last 20 years or so, and none of them have ever truly sounded like a real SSL, Neve or other hardware console. None. I've had a lot of years producing projects being mixed for broadcast on SSLs and Neves, and I've owned a 64 input board and a Neve hardware summing mixer to boot (it's not enough without the hardware channel strips, IMHO).

Only three emulations have ever come close to approximating that 'big as life' sound you get from a good console. I'll get to those in a moment. Here are some factors I think about:

1. It's OK/decent if a console emulation plugin replicates the turnover points of a console EQ, or the general characteristics of a hardware console's built-in compression. It doesn't sound like the console, but at least the controls respond similarly. There's some merit to that, but for the plugin makers to say, "It's the sound of the console that XYZ band used to make famous record ABC," is complete bullshit. Utter, unmitigated bullshit.

2. What does a real, high end, hardware console do to the audio? For whatever electronic reasons, the big consoles built their fame on simply making the audio sound more alive, real, and big. Their combination of electronics and the nonlinearities inherent in hardware have not yet been matched by software designers. Run audio through a good piece of hardware and something happens; sometimes something magical.

3. If you listen hard to the plugin emulations, and just run the audio through them without changing the settings, there's often no fucking difference at all in the audio. A hardware console does something to the signal without having to turn a knob, just by running audio through it. While lots of people perceive transparency as being a "better" emulation of the hardware, it's nonsense. Hardware isn't transparent.

4. For me, the test has been, "What emulation gives me a vibe." I realize that's often meaningless drivel, but a feeling is the important thing that's difficult for me to put into words and describe.

5. The emulations that have actually come close to giving me 'a vibe' are:

(a) the SSL-Harrison brand console emulations; best I've found yet.

(b) UA's Helios 69 and Neve 1084 console emulations.

(c) Waves' SSL (believe it or not, it's more real sounding for each channel than Plugin Alliance's, though there's one more thing I'll get to).

Plugin Alliance/Brainworx did come up with a switch that approximates the component tolerance differences between channels. I think they call it TFT.

When these are switched on as channels are piled up you do hear a difference in the mixes. I think this is a great feature and I wish all developers would adopt something similar.

On an individual basis, the PA channels do nothing for me, they merely replicate frequency bands and so on. However, I like the way the controls work on one of their channel plugins, the Amek 200, a console that never existed, but replicates some of Amek's mastering EQ and compressor controls in basic operation features.

As I write this, it just occurred to me that I haven't yet tried something that might be a good idea: Using my preferred console emulations, together with a Plugin Alliance console emulation on each channel, but not setting a thing on the PA console except the channel component tolerance variation. Maybe that would do something, and I promise to try it on my next mix.

Finally, analog tape vs digital; what's the deal here?

My studio was fully analog tape for about 10-12 years before I went digital, at first with digital tape and dedicated digital hardware, later using products like Digital Peformer, Pro Tools, and Logic.

Do any of the tape emulation plugins do what real analog tape did?

Nope.

I spent many, many hours in A/B comparisons between tape and digital. Yes, digital was cleaner, maybe more transparent, etc. But when I'd flip to the analog tape, everything sounded bigger and more alive.

I don't know what the fuck the analog tape emulations do, other than a little distortion, but it ain't that!

Still, a few can add a little to the signal. Sometimes I'm tempted to use them, sometimes not. I have all the halfway decent tape emulations; they're OK-ish. The best analog recording emulation seems to be Waves' Vinyl, which isn't even tape.

BTW - people rag on Waves, and not without reason (they've pulled some really dumb shit), but when the rubber meets the road, they've done some very good things with the important thing: software. Their L-series limiter plugins are still things I use for tracks like voice-overs that have to be heard fully over music beds. They simply work well for that.

Their more imaginative plugins do things nothing else does at all; Brauer Motion is one of many. Their recent intelligent compressor is pretty nice on some sources and using it doesn't involve thinking. Just put it on and there can be some improvement. I just used it yesterday on something for a client that I wasn't finding the right thing for until I tried slapping it on the track.

I sometimes think I don't use Waves' stuff much, and consider taking their package off my computer, but then I find myself using something that actually works very well when nothing else does, and/or is innovative, and I think, WTF, they're actually good at what they do!

An example: Last year I was mixing a commercial track and there was a noise problem I couldn't cure with iZotope RX. Out of desperation I tried using something I rarely found useful, a Waves noise remover that wasn't 'intelligent' like RX. It was the only thing that worked! Solved my problem in ten seconds and I went on about my business.

Another software company that's worthy is Kazrog. I find myself using the Brauer compressor on most vocals, and the Retro Instruments compressor emulation quite a bit on a variety of sources, too.

For the most part, UA does a really nice job with certain products. Their bass amp emulation is great (I think BX did it), as is their LA-2A. If I'm using a modeling product for a guitar amp on scratch track, I haven't found anything I can tolerate except UA's '57 Tweed Deluxe.

Finally - I'm almost finished with this rant - is it at all important to have plugins that do what hardware does?

Man! I dunno!

I can't answer that question for anyone else. That's an artistic choice only the individual can make. I guess the reason for this rant is simply because I can't shut the fuck up about audio! :rofl

[Moondog Willy is probably going to be pissed that I posted this here, apologies Willy, it seemed like a good place to bring it all up!]
 
Last edited:
I wanted to add a few observations, since I mentioned consoles:

I've owned every single emulation of consoles out there over the last 20 years or so, and none of them have ever truly sounded like a real SSL, Neve or other hardware console. None. I've had a lot of years producing projects being mixed for broadcast on SSLs and Neves, and I've owned a 64 input board and a Neve hardware summing mixer to boot (it's not enough without the hardware channel strips, IMHO).

Only three emulations have ever come close to approximating that 'big as life' sound you get from a good console. I'll get to those in a moment. Here are some factors I think about:

1. It's OK/decent if a console emulation plugin replicates the turnover points of a console EQ, or the general characteristics of a hardware console's built-in compression. It doesn't sound like the console, but at least the controls respond similarly. There's some merit to that, but for the plugin makers to say, "It's the sound of the console that XYZ band used to make famous record ABC," is complete bullshit. Utter, unmitigated bullshit.

2. What does a real, high end, hardware console do to the audio? For whatever electronic reasons, the big consoles built their fame on simply making the audio sound more alive, real, and big. Their combination of electronics and the nonlinearities inherent in hardware have not yet been matched by software designers. Run audio through a good piece of hardware and something happens; sometimes something magical.

3. If you listen hard to the plugin emulations, and just run the audio through them without changing the settings, there's often no fucking difference at all in the audio. A hardware console does something to the signal without having to turn a knob, just by running audio through it. While lots of people perceive transparency as being a "better" emulation of the hardware, it's nonsense. Hardware isn't transparent.

4. For me, the test has been, "What emulation gives me a vibe." I realize that's often meaningless drivel, but a feeling is the important thing that's difficult for me to put into words and describe.

5. The emulations that have actually come close to giving me 'a vibe' are:

(a) the SSL-Harrison brand console emulations; best I've found yet.

(b) UA's Helios 69 and Neve 1084 console emulations.

(c) Waves' SSL (believe it or not, it's more real sounding for each channel than Plugin Alliance's, though there's one more thing I'll get to).

Plugin Alliance/Brainworx did come up with a switch that approximates the component tolerance differences between channels. I think they call it TFT.

When these are switched on as channels are piled up you do hear a difference in the mixes. I think this is a great feature and I wish all developers would adopt something similar.

On an individual basis, the PA channels do nothing for me, they merely replicate frequency bands and so on. However, I like the way the controls work on one of their channel plugins, the Amek 200, a console that never existed, but replicates some of Amek's mastering EQ and compressor controls in basic operation features.

As I write this, it just occurred to me that I haven't yet tried something that might be a good idea: Using my preferred console emulations, together with a Plugin Alliance console emulation on each channel, but not setting a thing on the PA console except the channel component tolerance variation. Maybe that would do something, and I promise to try it on my next mix.

Finally, analog tape vs digital; what's the deal here?

My studio was fully analog tape for about 10-12 years before I went digital, at first with digital tape and dedicated digital hardware, later using products like Digital Peformer, Pro Tools, and Logic.

Do any of the tape emulation plugins do what real analog tape did?

Nope.

I spent many, many hours in A/B comparisons between tape and digital. Yes, digital was cleaner, maybe more transparent, etc. But when I'd flip to the analog tape, everything sounded bigger and more alive.

I don't know what the fuck the analog tape emulations do, other than a little distortion, but it ain't that!

Still, a few can add a little to the signal. Sometimes I'm tempted to use them, sometimes not. I have all the halfway decent tape emulations; they're OK-ish. The best analog recording emulation seems to be Waves' Vinyl, which isn't even tape.

BTW - people rag on Waves, and not without reason (they've pulled some really dumb shit), but when the rubber meets the road, they've done some very good things with the important thing: software. Their L-series limiter plugins are still things I use for tracks like voice-overs that have to be heard fully over music beds. They simply work well for that.

Their more imaginative plugins do things nothing else does at all; Brauer Motion is one of many. Their recent intelligent compressor is pretty nice on some sources and using it doesn't involve thinking. Just put it on and there can be some improvement. I just used it yesterday on something for a client that I wasn't finding the right thing for until I tried slapping it on the track.

I sometimes think I don't use Waves' stuff much, and consider taking their package off my computer, but then I find myself using something that actually works very well when nothing else does, and/or is innovative, and I think, WTF, they're actually good at what they do!

An example: Last year I was mixing a commercial track and there was a noise problem I couldn't cure with iZotope RX. Out of desperation I tried using something I rarely found useful, a Waves noise remover that wasn't 'intelligent' like RX. It was the only thing that worked! Solved my problem in ten seconds and I went on about my business.

Another software company that's worthy is Kazrog. I find myself using the Brauer compressor on most vocals, and the Retro Instruments compressor emulation quite a bit on a variety of sources, too.

For the most part, UA does a really nice job with certain products. Their bass amp emulation is great (I think BX did it), as is their LA-2A. If I'm using a modeling product for a guitar amp on scratch track, I haven't found anything I can tolerate except UA's '57 Tweed Deluxe.

Finally - I'm almost finished with this rant - is it at all important to have plugins that do what hardware does?

Man! I dunno!

I can't answer that question for anyone else. That's an artistic choice only the individual can make. I guess the reason for this rant is simply because I can't shut the fuck up about audio! :rofl

[Moondog Willy is probably going to be pissed that I posted this here, apologies Willy, it seemed like a good place to bring it all up!]
Dang, I wasn't planning on reading a book today! Look what you made me do. :hmm:LOL: jk

It's all interesting to me. The plugin summing and emulation is a bit black magic but it does do a thing. I will normally use a SSL or API emulation insert on my bus channels, which have the features like crosstalk, transformer ratio, 2nd and 3rd order harmonics etc. These particular plugs are built into Studio One's bus channels. I like what the SSL does for bass and drums, it can definitely liven up and add a bit of punch. I'll definitely look more into the SSL Harrison one, I know you've mentioned that before.
 
Back
Top