Studio Monitor Choices

[László]

Beautiful room Laszlo! I would have regained respect from my wife and dogs if mine were that clean. Your mixes sounded really good.

I’m honored that you like the mixes!

On the clean thing I am so OCD that anything out of place or that needs cleaning distracts me, and I can’t get creative. I’m not saying this is a good thing! I freely admit it’s a bit crazy.

Once my wife came into the room as I was straightening up after a session; it was pretty late. She looked around and finally said, “It’s a lot of work being you!”

 

[Someoldqueenorother]

On paper the JC-40 was KILLER. In reality the hiss was so annoying. The clean tone with the chorus and reverb was amazing. Probably not the same as a good vintage JC-120 but still really good.

I wish they just some damn thought and effort into it. Make a real fully analog Jazz Chorus that fixes the amp issues. It shouldn't be that expensive right? Just a good tank reverb, a CE-1 circuit, etc.

Lazy execution. For me, I won't go down that pathway now as using the Amalgam JC captures with Tonex is more than good enough through monitors.

 

[Someoldqueenorother]

That's a shame . I was considering buying a JC-40. I love a good Jazz Chorus amp. I played through many older JC-120s and have a late '80s JC-77. I really like the older analog ones, those always delivered the goods.

Never tried a JC-40 before yet. Is the noise and hiss there on all settings or just when you use the onboard or outboard digital effects? Also if either of you have played a JC-22, is the noise and hiss there on the JC-22 as well?

The JC-40 really was a disappointment. Now I'm playing with an HXFX going into Tonex SE and using left and right JC-120 captures from Amalgam. In the future I'm going to drop a Fractal VP4 into the equation with a pair of Tonex Ones.

 

[Jarick]

Lazy execution. For me, I won't go down that pathway now as using the Amalgam JC captures with Tonex is more than good enough through monitors.

I did find that most of the modelers can get a pretty good JC without much effort. I really liked the physical layout though, that would have been ideal as a plug and play amp.

 

[Someoldqueenorother]

I did find that most of the modelers can get a pretty good JC without much effort. I really liked the physical layout though, that would have been ideal as a plug and play amp.

I'm totally the other way. Even Fractal up to the Axe FX II didn't grab me. When I got the Amalgam captures and dropped them into the DAW (playing with headphones through the audio interface), it took me right back to getting my first JC-120 back in the 00's. I'd bought it on a whim because it was on Ebay for £150 delivered. It turned up wrapped in brown paper. It was a bit battered but everything powered up. The first thing I played on that was The Queen is Dead by the Smiths, chorus on, and it was glorious. I remember playing with a huge smile and went through most of the album.

Loading the Amalgam captures into Gig Performer and putting Audiority's Chief Chorus on the right hand capture brought out that same smile.

 

[PatF]

I ordered Kali IN-8, they sent me LP-8 v2. They are excellent. Meaty clear low end. Acceptable standard amount of hiss. Can't wait to get the right ones.

 

[Solarflares]

 

[JiveTurkey]

I bought my Kali LP6s back in COVID days. Excellent for the price. No complaints here.

 

[deathbyguitar]

Kali IN-5's serving me just fine.

 

[Jarick]

I've been tempted to re-open this rabbit hole but trying not to.

I got a pair of iLoud Precision 5 monitors a couple years ago to replace my Yamaha HS8's and Genelec 8020's. The Precisions are crisper sounding and have a much fuller low end than the Genelecs which sound boxy close or a bit muddy/indistinct further away. I ended up selling the Yamahas but kept the Genelecs as I didn't find a buyer.

Lately I've been really disliking the sound of the Precisions, not sounding anywhere near as clear as headphones. When using DSP room correction I hear weird phasing unless I'm in a very specific spot further away from where I sit. But if I swap them for Genelecs, the speakers sound so much smaller and I lose clarity despite having much better imaging.

Last night I dug out my monitor stands and pulled my desk further away from the wall, setting up the monitors on stands. That has moved me from about 30" away from speakers to about 40" away. This seems to help the low end bloom a bit but the biggest thing is helping to widen the sweet spot significantly. However it still does sound a bit indistinct.

I honestly love the build quality and smaller size of the Genelecs as they don't take up as much space and much more rugged with aluminum build and integrated grilles. I have a cat that will sometimes climb up/down the monitors and exposed tweeter/woofer makes me nervous. I also don't fully trust iLoud for a long-term support, so have been kicking around trading everything in towards a pair of Genelec 8030's or Neumann KH120's. I just don't know if that's going to necessarily be worth the extra expense though.

 

[DrewJD82]

I had to chuckle a bit watching Beato’s interview with Kevin Shirley; dude’s got a love affair with KrK’s. Has a beautiful set of Genelec’s in his studio he uses for entertainment listening but mixes everything on some little KrK’s.

From my non-professional/still haven’t nailed one of my own mixes yet experience, I have a big ole hunch that the most important part about monitors is learning them and the room they’re in, more so than what else is out there that might deliver something different.

While I did gain some bass information upgrading my HS5’s to HS8’s, I also added about 6 months of learning time that basically reset everything I had already learned on the previous pair, where I was getting more or less than same quality mixes due to using the same speakers/room for so long.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Room treatment is absolutely the way to go before jumping between monitors.

I’d say stick with Kali until the room is in a good place. Neumann KH120’s are solid too but cost way more.

I wouldn’t really bother with anything else until you get to the Neumann KH310 level. They punch well above their weight vs what they cost and are probably the first step up above a Kali.

Genelec make great speakers but IMO there’s quite a big jump from their budget stuff to their better ones. And for the money, Neumann are just way better - you have to spend way more with Genelec for something comparable.

 

[laxu]

I've been rocking a pair of Genelec M040 speakers for almost 10 years now. They were originally sold basically as a cheaper, different design and input selection (XLR+RCA) version of the 8000 series. The M030 is the size equivalent of the 8030 and M040 the 8040. Afaik they use the same drivers, but slightly less powerful poweramp than the 8000 series.

They did very well in reviews, but maybe didn't sell that well or were a bit too good for the price so they got discontinued pretty quickly. Still, a really good option if you can find them on the used market, as they can go much cheaper than the better known 8000 series.

Since Genelec is a Finnish company, they are the defacto option for studio monitors over here. I'd aim for the 8030 size and up as they have pretty solid bass response. I tried my M040 with a subwoofer and found the sub largely unnecessary even for bass playing.

Personally I'd avoid the models with built-in DSP (83xx) because they have a bit miserable latency (~4ms) for room correction by modern standards. There's plenty of other solutions you could use for that (Sonarworks, IK ARC-X etc). Not sure if you can bypass the DSP for minimum latency.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Personally I'd avoid the models with built-in DSP (83xx) because they have a bit miserable latency (~4ms) for room correction by modern standards. There's plenty of other solutions you could use for that (Sonarworks, IK ARC-X etc). Not sure if you can bypass the DSP for minimum latency.

Going in digitally would presumably bring that number down wouldn’t it?

 

[laxu]

Going in digitally would presumably bring that number down wouldn’t it?

From Genelec's support pages:

What is the delay (latency) through SAM™ monitors?

In SAM monitors the latency for a digital AES/EBU input, the delay is 3.75 – 4.5 ms, depending on the sample rate (shorter delay for higher sample rate). The delay in the analogue input is fixed to about 4 ms.

That's literally the entire article, with no info about what sample rate is used.

So it seems pretty high even digitally when stacked on top of audio interface latency (even if you avoid the D/A conversion from the audio interface)

 

[MirrorProfiles]

From Genelec's support pages:

What is the delay (latency) through SAM™ monitors?

In SAM monitors the latency for a digital AES/EBU input, the delay is 3.75 – 4.5 ms, depending on the sample rate (shorter delay for higher sample rate). The delay in the analogue input is fixed to about 4 ms.

That's literally the entire article, with no info about what sample rate is used.

So it seems pretty high even digitally when stacked on top of audio interface latency (even if you avoid the D/A conversion from the audio interface)

Yeah that’s quite long. Maybe they’re using FIR filters for the crossovers. I’d be surprised if it’s THAT bad in use as they’re designed for studio use. If someone’s already pushing the limit with latency maybe it would start getting noticeable

 

[Solarflares]

My Bryston DAC’s asynchronous USB-2 interface to audio gives an added 3ms in latency.
S/PDIF input to audio is the same.
The Motu M4 is 1.1ms each way at 96Khz 128 samples on a Mac Mini M4.
When I track into the Motu, I can monitor from its audio outs, so overall latency is then 2.2ms.
But for everything else I switch to the slower DAC.
The Motu’s midi still works when you have the DAC drivers selected active in DAW.