Question for Gotoh 510 users - decking two-point tremolos

[Fishbulb]

Howdy friends, I've not been active on guitar forums for a number of years but I've been lurking on this one for the past few weeks and feel I might get a better answer here than most other places. I have an oddly specific question about two-point tremolos that I can't seem to find an answer for...

My main guitar is a parts Strat, the body being from the Fender Player series with a two-point tremolo. So far, I've tried the stock Fender bridge that came with it (didn't care for really anything in regards to actually using the tremolo but I could set it up how I wanted), a Blade Runner Super Vee and most recently a Wilkinson VS100. I prefer to have a tremolo decked, in case I break a string live, want to tune down really quickly for a song live or during a lesson, or rest my palm on the bridge for muting. The main issue I've had with all of these except for the Fender one is that I can't seem to be able to get the base plate to sit right on the body. I had high hopes that the Wilkinson would do this and was assured that I'd be able to deck it from the place where I bought it, but there's a gap between the bottom of the base plate and the body that's caused by the way the studs are made, which doesn't allow them to be screwed far down enough for the base plate to touch the top of the guitar's body. For anyone curious - the Blade Runner had a gap too, due to the nature of the construction, the baseplate and saddles sat up a little higher than the part that connected to the studs (not to mention, it just wasn't so fun to use for me personally).

This brings me to the 510. In looking at some photos, I notice that the studs are the same as what I've got now (I think Gotoh makes all the Wilkinson stuff at this point?) but the area on the 510's baseplate that meets the studs is closer in design to the Fender tremolo, in that the top is flat and the bottom has an angle to it that allows the whole bridge to move when you use the bar. The Wilkinson splits this part between the top and bottom of the base plate, and the blade edge meets the studs right in the middle. My question, after this long-winded exposition, is for anybody who uses a 510 - do you, or can you, screw the studs all the way down to where the baseplate is truly decked and resting against the top of the guitar body? Am I dumb for considering a 4th bridge now for my main guitar? Should I go touch grass? Thanks!!!

 

[State of Epicicity]

@Eagle

 

[Badonkey Kong]

Another option is to block the trem, effectively giving you the same behavior.

 

[Fishbulb]

Another option is to block the trem, effectively giving you the same behavior.

Hey Badonkey - I neglected to mention, I do have one of those tremolo stopper things in the back of this guitar and another one. I can't remember the brand, it's not the F U Tone that everyone seems to like, but they are both kind of squirrelly - you can pull back on the bar some and it will move still. I guess my last-ditch would be to look into a better version of one of these, like the F U Black box or something.

 

[JasonE]

I have a 510 in a few of my guitars. I have not tried to deck any of them. I know on one of my guitars it isn't floating by much and that is just the geometry of the guitar and how I like my setups done. I think you could deck the 510 without any issues though. One thing to be aware of is that the studs in the 510 have a locking screw in the center of them. You have to turn that (loosen) it so it comes to the upper part of the stud or it will bottom out and stop the stud from being able to be screwed in far enough to deck the trem.

 

[Eagle]

Hey Badonkey - I neglected to mention, I do have one of those tremolo stopper things in the back of this guitar and another one. I can't remember the brand, it's not the F U Tone that everyone seems to like, but they are both kind of squirrelly - you can pull back on the bar some and it will move still. I guess my last-ditch would be to look into a better version of one of these, like the F U Black box or something.

FU stuff is garbage snake oil.

 

[Eagle]

If you want to set up a 510 down bend only you need the studs to hold the baseplate a hair above the body at the leading edge. The plate must not touch the body in operation. Then when you have this set right you can tighten the springs so the back rests on the body. It is advised to tighten them enough to resist a full tone bend on the g without tipping up.

 

[Fishbulb]

If you want to set up a 510 down bend only you need the studs to hold the baseplate a hair above the body at the leading edge. The plate must not touch the body in operation. Then when you have this set right you can tighten the springs so the back rests on the body. It is advised to tighten them enough to resist a full tone bend on the g without tipping up.

Interesting - I might try setting the Wilkinson up this way and see where that gets me. I tried once briefly, and it felt like it didn't want to go back in tune as well as when it was floating, but I doubt I had the same amount of tension on it as you described here. Thank you all so much!!

 

[Eagle]

Interesting - I might try setting the Wilkinson up this way and see where that gets me. I tried once briefly, and it felt like it didn't want to go back in tune as well as when it was floating, but I doubt I had the same amount of tension on it as you described here. Thank you all so much!!

Don’t set the Wilkinson like this because the saddle design is different. The saddle hight adjustment is only there to match it to fit the radius , the action should be set with the two posts.

 

[Los-D]

I added a tremolo stopper similar to this to my Diamond Series Schecter Nick Johnston strat, set it up parallelly (not touching the body), and tighten tremolo spring screws as much as possible. Turned it into dive only and very stiff feeling, but no tuning issues!

Tried one of these first since it promised the ability to pull up on the bar, but tuning issues persisted. Same results on a Charvel DK24 (loved that guitar, sold it out of frustration).

FYI, nuts were cut correctly + locking tuners on both

 

[Eagle]

I added a tremolo stopper similar to this to my Diamond Series Schecter Nick Johnston strat, set it up parallelly (not touching the body), and tighten tremolo spring screws as much as possible. Turned it into dive only and very stiff feeling, but no tuning issues!

View attachment 37917

Tried one of these first since it promised the ability to pull up on the bar, but tuning issues persisted. Same results on a Charvel DK24 (loved that guitar, sold it out of frustration).

View attachment 37919

FYI, nuts were cut correctly + locking tuners on both

They work but set up has to be right.

 

[Jarick]

Depends if the body is recessed behind the trem...on my Charvel with a 510 it was recessed so you couldn't deck it. On my Ibanez which has a 510 it's not recessed and you can deck it no issues. Same on my Strat but that's a 6-screw version.

Not sure I'd bother with the 510 if you're going to deck it...maybe just use the stock bridge and swap out the saddles if you want something else?

 

[Fishbulb]

I added a tremolo stopper similar to this to my Diamond Series Schecter Nick Johnston strat, set it up parallelly (not touching the body), and tighten tremolo spring screws as much as possible. Turned it into dive only and very stiff feeling, but no tuning issues!

View attachment 37917

Tried one of these first since it promised the ability to pull up on the bar, but tuning issues persisted. Same results on a Charvel DK24 (loved that guitar, sold it out of frustration).

View attachment 37919

FYI, nuts were cut correctly + locking tuners on both

Yeah the top one is what I've got in there now, I think the screws don't go deep enough so it'll still pull back a bit with any amount of force. @Eagle noted on the Wilkinson setup, thanks again for your time and advice!

 

[Baba]

I’ve had great luck with a tremol-no that was installed on my Tremonti SE.

 

[Eagle]

I’ve had great luck with a tremol-no that was installed on my Tremonti SE.

It will sound better without it and work better.
It’s very compromised unfortunately.

 

[Baba]

It will sound better without it and work better.
It’s very compromised unfortunately.

Just so that the OP isn't turned off, unnecessarily:

Maybe in your experience, not in mine. I'm talking about blocking a trem, and mine works perfectly, so I'm not sure what you're saying will "work better", because I have the stopper kind as well, in 2 of my guitars, and they don't work as well as my tremol-no for blocking the trem.

I also have a few non-tremol-no PRS to compare to my Tremonti with the Tremol-no, and there is no discernable sound difference that I can hear, but then again, I've never heard "cone cry" or could actually hear the difference between when a speaker is new and then broken in, later, so, grain of salt . . .

 

[Eagle]

Just so that the OP isn't turned off, unnecessarily:

Maybe in your experience, not in mine. I'm talking about blocking a trem, and mine works perfectly, so I'm not sure what you're saying will "work better", because I have the stopper kind as well, in 2 of my guitars, and they don't work as well as my tremol-no for blocking the trem.

I also have a few non-tremol-no PRS to compare to my Tremonti with the Tremol-no, and there is no discernable sound difference that I can hear, but then again, I've never heard "cone cry" or could actually hear the difference between when a speaker is new and then broken in, later, so, grain of salt . . .

Maybe you are not listening.
It definitely is quite compromised.
I take them off regularly. I also set them up for the best performance they are capable of.
If you actually saying you can’t tell the difference between a properly broken in speaker and a new one maybe you have not had the opportunity to AB them. Once again an obvious difference in sound and feel.

 

[JasonE]

I put a Tremol-No in my PRS SAS. My reason for doing that was to be able to lock it down to do a drop D tuning on the fly. I found it hard to lock down on the fly and I did notice a bit of tuning stability issue with it. If I set it to dive only the guitar wouldn't always come back up in tune when I used the trem. When I unlocked it the guitar would come back up in tune every time. You really have to get everything lined up correctly with them or the rod will drag in the hole it is in and could even bind and that really messes with how well it works. I am not sure if I noticed any differences in tone but I pulled it back out probably a year ago and the guitar is very solid and stays in tune with trem use. I am not sure I would call it a great solution. There is a lot that can go wrong with getting them adjusted exactly right.

 

[Eagle]

I put a Tremol-No in my PRS SAS. My reason for doing that was to be able to lock it down to do a drop D tuning on the fly. I found it hard to lock down on the fly and I did notice a bit of tuning stability issue with it. If I set it to dive only the guitar wouldn't always come back up in tune when I used the trem. When I unlocked it the guitar would come back up in tune every time. You really have to get everything lined up correctly with them or the rod will drag in the hole it is in and could even bind and that really messes with how well it works. I am not sure if I noticed any differences in tone but I pulled it back out probably a year ago and the guitar is very solid and stays in tune with trem use. I am not sure I would call it a great solution. There is a lot that can go wrong with getting them adjusted exactly right.

Even set up correctly it adds friction. It also interferes with the path of the string energy. Now add the fact that there is slop or friction in the clamp hinges and you have a little pile of shit that belongs in the junk drawer.