Quality loss in conversion from Logic to mp3/AAC?

fretworn

fretworn

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TGF Recording Artist
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OK maybe this is just the captain obvious answer… Meaning that of course they sound worse.

But I just am working on mixing my week five project, and noticed that logic sounds appreciably better than either the bounced AAC files or the MP3.

The MP3 sounds a little better in the mids over the aac, but there are some serious loss of fidelity here. Crushes the sound stage as well.

What am I be doing wrong?

My levels are great… Not clipping. No reason to mash the shit out of it.

(Tried it 24 bits at 44.1k also 48K. High streaming rates)

Halp! TIA
 
When talking about lossy audio formats like AAC and MP3 you have to mention Bitrate (kbps), too low bitrate and you will start to hear artifacts, usually around 128kbps, above that at 256 or 320kbps there should be no audible difference from lossless FLAC/WAV.
The compression itself doesn't change the sound spectrum though, so I don't know what's up with that.
 
James Freeman said:
When talking about lossy audio formats like AAC and MP3 you have to mention Bitrate (kbps), too low bitrate and you will start to hear artifacts, usually around 128kbps, above that at 256 or 320kbps there should be no audible difference from lossless FLAC/WAV.
The compression itself doesn't change the sound spectrum though, so I don't know what's up with that.
Click to expand...

Was at 320 kbps

I’m being a little dramatic about the sound stage… More accurately the highs are getting changed in a way where I lose the imaging crispness. Stereo is clearly still there but I put a lot of work into the imaging. It kills me to lose any of it.

And the aac is totally darkening the mids. :unsure:
 
I’m gonna go sit down with fresh ears today… And I hope to be able to master down in a way that retains integrity of the Logic mix.
 
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May I ask why are you using lossy coded in the first place?
Storage space is cheap, there is no reason to use lossy formats these days especially if working for a client.

The usual outlets like Spotify, SoundCloud etc. will encode the audio for you when uploading.
I suggest using FLAC all the way, even if it is just for archiving locally and listening to music.
 
James Freeman said:
May I ask why are you using lossy coded in the first place?
Storage space is cheap, there is no reason to use lossy formats these days especially if working for a client.
FLAC all the way.
Click to expand...

That’s a really good point


It’s the weekly challenge here and I need to be able to stream it to people.

I guess I could stick it on a Dropbox ? and provide the link that way, but I was trying to make of Apple Music or SoundCloud compatible.

I should also note that I’m fairly new to Logic only just starting in the last 30 days.
 
DrewJD82 said:
When you’re bouncing the song down, see that box that says Normalize? Set that f*cker to OFF.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that little thing.


I had it just limiting I believe but no need because I’m at 0.0 dB on peaks. I could go to -0.1 if necessary.
 
fretworn said:
I was wondering about that little thing.


I had it just limiting I believe but no need because I’m at 0.0 dB on peaks. I could go to -0.1 if necessary.
Click to expand...

I was running into the same issue you were back in the day and even though I wasn’t going above 0.0dB, it was still making it sound odd. I’d rather get exactly what I hear in the DAW and if I have to do something to do the track after, I’ll do it in a new session and treat it like a mastering session.
 
Not sure there is an online streaming service that will give you lossless quality. I don't care what they say when
you are allowed to upload a FLAC/WAV file, they still gonna compress that fucker down to a shit-ass sounding
mp3. Soundcloud is really bad with that. Lots of that compressed/smearing thing with the cymbals and a
lower overall volume than what your Master was/is.

Dropbox is a bit better, in my experience. Still nothing like your Master, but better than Shitcloud! :LOL:
 
You shouldn’t be hearing much difference in 320k MP3s. Something else is up. Maybe a tiny bit in the super highs like cymbal crashes but it shouldn’t be drastically different.
 
la szum said:
Not sure there is an online streaming service that will give you lossless quality. I don't care what they say when
you are allowed to upload a FLAC/WAV file, they still gonna compress that f****r down to a s**t-ass sounding
mp3. Soundcloud is really bad with that. Lots of that compressed/smearing thing with the cymbals and a
lower overall volume than what your Master was/is.

Dropbox is a bit better, in my experience. Still nothing like your Master, but better than Shitcloud! :LOL:
Click to expand...

Apple Music streams lossless.

I definitely am not hearing the same compression going on with Soundcloud you are, while it’s slightly different, if it were THAT bad I’d never use it! :rofl
 
Years ago I compared 320kbps and lossless and decided it wasn’t worth worrying about. About 5 years ago, when I had an appreciably better monitoring environment I couldn’t believe how much I hated listening to lossy audio. When listening to music around the house or using earbuds I can’t notice a difference but in the studio it’s really obvious and I don’t think the compromise is worth it - particularly because the audio affected are the ones I’m really trying to get right (the deep lows and very top end, as well as the imaging). I think our brain can detect when something isn’t right, and it’s subconsciously working a bit harder to work out what it is. Listening to lossless just sort of gives a more relaxing feeling by comparison.

mp3’s have this quality where the imaging sounds like it’s swirling around, and it ends up distracting from other special information. Likewise the low end suffers too. There are tools like Ozone where you can solo out just the artefacts from mp3 conversion (and at different bitrates).

It’s kind of like preparing a really nice meal and then covering it in dirt right before eating. I just don’t see the point in self sabotaging your hard work in 2023. There’s no way as consumers we should accept lossy audio as standard - it should be an option for convenience rather than the defacto. I genuinely believe it’s best supporting the streaming services that offer lossless audio, and ideally ones that list credits properly (another thing that should be standard across all services).

I wouldn’t expect everyone to agree because it depends on how you’re listening and also how you listen to music. But I do think it’s important streaming services deliver music exactly how it’s delivered them, it shouldn’t be their decision to butcher it for their customers.
 
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DrewJD82 said:
Apple Music streams lossless.

I definitely am not hearing the same compression going on with Soundcloud you are, while it’s slightly different, if it were THAT bad I’d never use it! :rofl
Click to expand...

Oh, it's there all right! :LOL:
 
Bruce said:
You shouldn’t be hearing much difference in 320k MP3s. Something else is up. Maybe a tiny bit in the super highs like cymbal crashes but it shouldn’t be drastically different.
Click to expand...

Yup. Just fixed a few minor things - some gain staging and getting LUFS +6-7 dB higher on the whole mix.

Also, unchecked that limiter in the BOUNCE window

Sounds pretty close. Not nearly as bad now!

Muchas gracias amigos! (I love learning and hope it just gets better.)

Reposted the new mix in DO DOMETHING week 5; version TGF Wk 5 V03
 
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Izotope seems to know whats up.



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I wonder if the music market since its fall into mp3s, will climb back up to lossles? Maybe a trend?


I felt like CDs were a huge step backwards in the 80s for a decade or more until converters got better.

Man, I thought we'd be 96khz at 24 bits all the time by now.
 
fretworn said:
I wonder if the music market since its fall into mp3s, will climb back up to lossles? Maybe a trend?


I felt like CDs were a huge step backwards in the 80s for a decade or more until converters got better.

Man, I thought we'd be 96khz at 24 bits all the time by now.
Click to expand...
As 5G gets more reliable, no reason we shouldn't be streaming lossless audio as well as 1080p video effortlessly. Right now, at least in NYC, its decent but can use improvement.
 
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