Out of adjustment on my Charvel bridge (intonation question)

[HomespunEffects]

This is on my Charvel Surfcaster with a tune-o-matic bridge. I’m intonating my bridge and it seems on the D string it’s reading flat up on the high frets. So I go to shorten the string at the bridge and it’s all the way already and I can’t move it. The saddle already has the flat side toward the nut so flipping it won’t help.

So, what do you do when you run out of threads on the intonation screw?

@Eagle do you have any advice for this?

 

[Eagle]

Try tuning it to third fret fretted notes and intonate it on the fifteenth.

 

[Eagle]

On any production guitar the bridge will be in the right position Any issues will be caused by something else. Strings not bedding down on the witness points when you do the intonation ( new strings ) can be a big issue because as they do the intonation will change by a noticeable amount. Also a lot of very convincing fake strings are out there that typically don’t stay in tune or intonate for shit.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Try tuning it to third fret fretted notes and intonate it on the fifteenth.

I do that.

 

[HomespunEffects]

On any production guitar the bridge will be in the right position Any issues will be caused by something else. Strings not bedding down on the witness points when you do the intonation ( new strings ) can be a big issue because as they do the intonation will change by a noticeable amount. Also a lot of very convincing fake strings are out there that typically don’t stay in tune or intonate for shit.

Yeah, I can’t figure what changed. Something happened while it was just setting there unplayed. I can’t imagine hanging it has pulled the neck away from the body but I’ll loosen the neck screws and see if it moves.

This guitar is from 1993 and it’s been excellent I’m going to tear it down and clean everything and maybe replace the saddles or the whole bridge.

It has the intonation screws toward the nut. I have to look up if that is the Nashville style or ABR style? Or something entirely different from Charvel.

 

[mbenigni]

Not sure whether this would apply to your guitar (or whether it's already been done) but I had a similar issue with a tune-o-matic-equipped guitar, and someone recommended I rotate that saddle 180 and thread it in backwards. That might move the point of contact with the string a couple of mm... for better or worse? (It worked for me.)

 

[HomespunEffects]

Not sure whether this would apply to your guitar (or whether it's already been done) but I had a similar issue with a tune-o-matic-equipped guitar, and someone recommended I rotate that saddle 180 and thread it in backwards. That might move the point of contact with the string a couple of mm... for better or worse? (It worked for me.)

That's what I meant in the OP. It's already in the position that would place it closer to the edge so flipping it 180 degrees would make it worse. I was hoping I could flip it but it's already there. I'm going to tear it all the way down and reseat the neck in the neck pocket and make sure the relief is correct. Then a full cleaning and setup with new strings.

 

[mbenigni]

That's what I meant in the OP. It's already in the position that would place it closer to the edge so flipping it 180 degrees would make it worse. I was hoping I could flip it but it's already there. I'm going to tear it all the way down and reseat the neck in the neck pocket and make sure the relief is correct. Then a full cleaning and setup with new strings.

Sorry, I don't know how I managed to miss that.

More coffee, please...

 

[Warmart]

Very possible you have a bad string, put a new one on, stretch it and play a bit - and try again. I've definitely seen wonky strings cause intonation issues.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Sorry, I don't know how I managed to miss that.

More coffee, please...

lol. No worries, friend! :)

 

[HomespunEffects]

Very possible you have a bad string, put a new one on, stretch it and play a bit - and try again. I've definitely seen wonky strings cause intonation issues.

It was intonated with this string. I guess it could have corroded with humidity or something. I’ll replace them. Probably this weekend.

 

[HomespunEffects]

New strings give the same results. I cleaned up some burrs on the saddles, same result. Something must be wrong with the bridge.

I ended up using a countersink bit to give the saddle a little more adjustment and finally got it intonated but it's at the absolute end of the adjustment. I'm going to try some other bridges on the guitar to see if it helps at all. Maybe tomorrow. This is so confounding. I just don't get why it's doing this.

 

[Eagle]

3rd .to 15th? And press your thumb on the string just in front of the bridge and check again. Also check the pickup is not too high.

 

[DrewJD82]

Also check the pickup is not too high.

This has been the culprit of many wonky intonation issues.

I believe it was 2012 Ibanez was installing the JEM7V's pickups too high, Rich from IbanezRules was wracking his brain trying to figure out why the hell all these 2012's couldn't be intonated, after months they finally realize it was the pickups pulling on the strings too hard.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I didn’t change the pickup height from when it was intonated but I’ll check the height today.

 

[HomespunEffects]

3/32” is a recommended starting point for the neck pickup. I’ve got it farther from the string fretted at the highest fret at .15” (3/20”) to balance it with the bridge pickup which is a gold foil. I don’t think the gold foil is pulling on the strings. It would be the Tele neck pickup with the magnetic pole pieces.

More confounding.

I’m taking it all apart to check all the geometry. I hate wasting strings like this.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Tore it down. Neck is correct. It’s acting as if the neck isn’t in the correct position but it is. The bridge isn’t bent. The bridge pins aren’t bent. I lowered the action way too much and it helped a little but I don’t like it so low that it buzzes. Another new set of strings but of a heavier gauge. My last resort is a bridge with more available adjustment like a Wilkinson roller. I’m hoping it’s not a tone sucker.

 

[Eagle]

If that is the original bridge it will intonate.
Did you press the strings down in front of the saddle? This is a fix in many cases.

 

[HomespunEffects]

If that is the original bridge it will intonate.
Did you press the strings down in front of the saddle? This is a fix in many cases.

It is the original bridge.
Do you want me to put a little kink in the string or just make sure it’s seated?

 

[FuzzyAce]

3/32” is a recommended starting point for the neck pickup. I’ve got it farther from the string fretted at the highest fret at .15” (3/20”) to balance it with the bridge pickup which is a gold foil. I don’t think the gold foil is pulling on the strings. It would be the Tele neck pickup with the magnetic pole pieces.

More confounding.

I’m taking it all apart to check all the geometry. I hate wasting strings like this.

Not saying that is the culprit (could be), but that seems a tad high to have the neck pickup. Maybe lower them a bit more?
I try not to exceed a 1/8" threshold for the neck pup but it's often lower, and of course not all pickups are equal.