NAID: RME Fireface UCX II

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, in case you don't need the quality of RMEs converters and can get away with an extra box converting things to Adat format, there's also their Digiface USB. No analog I/Os on its own (but the headphone out), 4 Adat/SPDIF I/Os.
Comes with the same quality drivers and Totalmix (without FX, though).
Possibly the most affordable way to get into RME land (€438}, in case you can get away with, say, a Behringer ADA8200 (8 channel mic/line to to Adat preamp), which IMO is much better than what the name Behringer might suggest (€149). Or get one of the new-ish Evo (Audient) Boxes for €444, which are supposed to be quite excellent for the money,

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Fwiw, in case you don't need the quality of RMEs converters and can get away with an extra box converting things to Adat format, there's also their Digiface USB. No analog I/Os on its own (but the headphone out), 4 Adat/SPDIF I/Os.
Comes with the same quality drivers and Totalmix (without FX, though).
Possibly the most affordable way to get into RME land (€438}, in case you can get away with, say, a Behringer ADA8200 (8 channel mic/line to to Adat preamp), which IMO is much better than what the name Behringer might suggest (€149). Or get one of the new-ish Evo (Audient) Boxes for €444, which are supposed to be quite excellent for the money,

I have an ADA8200 and while it’s good for the money, it’s noisy and flimsy. I’d just go for an older used RME interface if money is tight, you’ll get way better features, specs and performance out of it.

Not sure I’d fancy using the ADA8200 for D/A either unless you have to, or if they’re for less important tasks. For your main A/D and D/A I think it’s better to just spend more money rather than having 8 budget channels.

If you want RME, get RME. Behringer+Totalmix ain’t THAT good. Totalmix is fine but loads of interface software is pretty capable these days.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I have an ADA8200 and while it’s good for the money, it’s noisy and flimsy. I’d just go for an older used RME interface if money is tight, you’ll get way better features, specs and performance out of it.

As said, you could as well get an EVO.
And fwiw, I found the AD8200 (not the old 8000) to sound pretty decent.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

And fwiw, I found the AD8200 (not the old 8000) to sound pretty decent.

It does sound OK. But the noise floor is bad and it’s flimsy AF. It’s fine if they’re not your main ins and outs but I wouldn’t centre a rig around it.

Not sure how much most people here need 8 channels in and out either.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Not sure how much most people here need 8 channels in and out either.

Well, even better if you don't. There's quite some decent stereo converters with SPDIF support that you could use with Digiface USB. And you'd be off with vastly less money spent, compared to a Fireface UCX.

 

[Sedaxel]

I find much more important the AD stage than the DA stage. At least for my needs. I prefer to be sure that recordings are good rather than having an outstanding DAC for listening to them. At the end, mixes will be played in every kind of DACs (from mp3 players, through phones, PCs or high quality HIFI devices). Of course, having both is best... but if money has to be prioritised, I chose AD first. For that reason, I don´t see the digiface as a huge value for mixing in a home studio. Once your tracks enter the digital domain... well, "the damage is done", I guess.

Now, the question for me is how much of a difference makes an RME AD compared to an Audient AD. Is there THAT "a lot of money" of a difference?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Now, the question for me is how much of a difference makes an RME AD compared to an Audient AD. Is there THAT "a lot of money" of a difference?

IMO it depends on what the weakest link in your chain is. I’d be spending the money on many other things before upgrading converters for sonic reasons. I do think good converters are worth it though, especially on the D/A where it makes things easier to hear and discern.

The ADI-2 range from RME does sound noticeably better to me but the rest of the units don’t sound bad at all. I’d just put the ADI-2 up there with the best converters from Prism/Lynx/Apogee etc. I usually think of reliability/stability/latency as RME’s strongest points though. Room treatment, good monitors, good monitor stands etc will all make a bigger difference.

 

[jellodog]

Agree on the value of the RME low latency. It's wonderful and is making amps in plugins like Mercuriall (+ Valhalla delays etc.) as satisfying for me as using dedicated hardware like the Axe-Fx.

Happy camper here

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I’d say with a lot of studio gear, if you can afford it, there’s nothing wrong with going straight in with KILLER gear and then never having to doubt or question its performance. It might seem like a negligible improvement or an added expense, but sometimes that peace of mind is just worth not having to keep doubts in your mind.

Budget interfaces are better than ever and are more than capable of doing a great job. If you only see a device as a stopgap before heading to something else, sometimes it’s worth just going straight to the one you want and getting on with your life, otherwise you can end up in a cycle of upgrading things

 

[Sedaxel]

IMO it depends on what the weakest link in your chain is. I’d be spending the money on many other things before upgrading converters for sonic reasons.

This is great info for me. I should be preparing my new home studio in a basement, building a 10m2 soundproof room inside it, so I´m for sure spending big money in the isolation and de-coupling of floor and roof and whatnot, so I´m not going to have money for much else in the short term. I guess an Audient id24 will do it for me right now (it has balanced inserts to go direct to the AD or to go with the preamp to an analog submixer and record vocals with real zero latency).

RME Babyface Pro FS would be most affordable interface from RME... but they are quite hard to find used, so still big money for me. It´s in my wishlist, though.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

This is great info for me. I should be preparing my new home studio in a basement, building a 10m2 soundproof room inside it, so I´m for sure spending big money in the isolation and de-coupling of floor and roof and whatnot, so I´m not going to have money for much else in the short term. I guess an Audient id24 will do it for me right now (it has balanced inserts to go direct to the AD or to go with the preamp to an analog submixer and record vocals with real zero latency).

RME Babyface Pro FS would be most affordable interface from RME... but they are quite hard to find used, so still big money for me. It´s in my wishlist, though.

That’s exactly what I’d recommend - do the room right and ideally settle on speakers etc too. id24 will be perfect and is cheap enough that if you go for something fancy you’ll already have your moneys worth from them.

You’ll know when you’re ready to move on to something else

 

[Sedaxel]

That’s exactly what I’d recommend - do the room right and ideally settle on speakers etc too. id24 will be perfect and is cheap enough that if you go for something fancy you’ll already have your moneys worth from them.

You’ll know when you’re ready to move on to something else

It´s great to have your help in these matters, mate. Big thank you!

I have also a "big" investment pending: studio monitors. I´ve got a pair of Tannoy Reveal 6.5". They´re old, passive, and maybe too big for a 10m2 room... so they´ll stay at home, where they just work passably. All my wise mates, some of them run little recording studios, tell me to spend in a pair of Genelecs... even down to the 8010 if there´s no other option. They are pretty sure it´s a completely different league from JBL, Yamaha, Adam and the likes.

EDIT: sorry, I´ve just realized I´m derailing the thread.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It´s great to have your help in these matters, mate. Big thank you!

I have also a "big" investment pending: studio monitors. I´ve got a pair of Tannoy Reveal 6.5". They´re old, passive, and maybe too big for a 10m2 room... so they´ll stay at home, where they just work passably. All my wise mates, some of them run little recording studios, tell me to spend in a pair of Genelecs... even down to the 8010 if there´s no other option. They are pretty sure it´s a completely different league from JBL, Yamaha, Adam and the likes.

EDIT: sorry, I´ve just realized I´m derailing the thread.

Some level of subjectivity and personal preference with monitoring.

I kind of feel like Kali are your best bet until you get to Neumann KH310’s. If you’re spending more than that, then the Genelecs 8341/8351 etc are amazing. I’m not sure their cheaper stuff is as good value as other options but they’re definitely a solid choice.

 

[Sascha Franck]

ow, the question for me is how much of a difference makes an RME AD compared to an Audient AD. Is there THAT "a lot of money" of a difference?

Very likely not. You can sort of test the quality of your converters yourself, though. Just do a loopback recording yourself and see after how many generations you notice a clear degration of the signal (you can of course also do nulltests to measure the differences of each generation).

I'm saying that these days, converters defenitely aren't something worth much thought for any kind of "normal" folks anymore.

However, with an interface, you usually want the whole package (or need to deal with the entire package). So there's preamps involved, for mic, instrument and line signals. And most folks over here will know that there's pretty noticeable differences, especially regarding high impedance instrument inputs. Sure, you can slap something external in front, but usually you just don't want to have to do that.
Then there's latency. And then there's the overall handling. Such as onboard routing, amount of outputs (that you may need to feed different monitors and monitor mixes, etc).
And once you look at the package, RME really delivers.

Personally, while still thinking about getting an RME Babyface one day, I may however opt for something else instead, namely an interface featuring two headphone outs, simply because these days I'm often doing duo things, and having to connect whatever it is to get a second HP out is just annoying.

 

[Sedaxel]

Very likely not. You can sort of test the quality of your converters yourself, though. Just do a loopback recording yourself and see after how many generations you notice a clear degration of the signal (you can of course also do nulltests to measure the differences of each generation).

Yeah, I´ve seen some YT tests like this. Usually, SSL, Antelope and Audient are impressive (didn´t see RME tests). And in these tests, id24 performs better than EVOs. But maybe after 100 repetitions... so not really a terrible difference.

I'm saying that these days, converters defenitely aren't something worth much thought for any kind of "normal" folks anymore.

Agree 100%.

However, with an interface, you usually want the whole package (or need to deal with the entire package). So there's preamps involved, for mic, instrument and line signals. And most folks over here will know that there's pretty noticeable differences, especially regarding high impedance instrument inputs. Sure, you can slap something external in front, but usually you just don't want to have to do that.

Agree 100%.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah, I´ve seen some YT tests like this. Usually, SSL, Antelope and Audient are impressive (didn´t see RME tests). And in these tests, id24 performs better than EVOs. But maybe after 100 repetitions... so not really a terrible difference.

I did quite some of these tests myself. IMO they're really only interesting when you actually have to use some amplifying features. Recording a line signal to a line in (well ok, typically a combo in with the gain all the way down) is pretty much no issue with most interfaces anymore.
Sure, if I had a killer studio, I'd possibly check the converters, too. But most of us don't.

 

[Sedaxel]

I did quite some of these tests myself. IMO they're really only interesting when you actually have to use some amplifying features. Recording a line signal to a line in (well ok, typically a combo in with the gain all the way down) is pretty much no issue with most interfaces anymore.
Sure, if I had a killer studio, I'd possibly check the converters, too. But most of us don't.

Good info.

Yeah, I was told that nowadays there´s not a mandatory need to bypass mic preamps to get clean line recordings.

One thing I like are balanced inserts. When recording mi girl´ s vocals, she usually is a little uncomfortable. She doesn´t know why, but I´m almost sure that "fake" direct monitoring is the cause. Most interfaces still run trough ADDA in direct monitoring setting. That means maybe 1 ms or so... but for vocals, I´m sure there are singers that can sense it. Maybe even acoustinc guitar fast strummers (my buddy notice it when recording through a Behringer X32, which has less than 1ms latency). For that reason, I want a truly analog direct monitoring system. Inserts (like those on the id24) allow you to split the mic preamp before hitting AD converter. You can route the insert to a little analog mixer and plug the headphones from it. This way, the singer has ZERO latency. Audient id24 is the cheapest one with this characteristic, I think (besides UMC204HD, which direct moniting setting is analog zero latency).

 

[Sascha Franck]

That means maybe 1 ms or so... but for vocals, I´m sure there are singers that can sense it.

Singers usually don't sense it because of the timing but because there's phase issues between their inner head signal and what they hear from the headphones. And yes, sometimes *raising* the latency is actually fixing that because it means to leave the area of phasing and rather deal with some sort of what is almost a doubling effect.

Whenever any of this becomes an issue for me, I still grab an old little Mackie VLZ mixer. Very handy for plenty of things.

 

[Orvillain]

I have a UFXII. It is bloody great. I've coupled it with an Antelope Audio Discrete 8, which is a nice interface in its own right. So I have 12 decent enough mic pre's for home use (13 including my 1073 clone), or 18 line inputs. 16 line outputs if I want as well.

I do have a Behringer patchbay that I am slowly getting stuff plumbed into it, and trying to think about what my workflow should be.

I've got my synths patched into it. So that's:
Novation Summit
Waldorf Iridium
ASM Hydrasynth
Novation Bass Station II
Elektron Digitakt II

And I can very easily route these into some outboard pedals and then back into the card. Or an outboard compressor (I recently picked up the FMR 'Really Nice Compressor' after @MirrorProfiles mentioned it, and it is ... as the name says, really nice!)

Previously I had a Presonus Quantum, and it was fine enough. But overall the UFXII+D8 combo is pretty damn great.

 

[Orvillain]

Singers usually don't sense it because of the timing but because there's phase issues between their inner head signal and what they hear from the headphones. And yes, sometimes *raising* the latency is actually fixing that because it means to leave the area of phasing and rather deal with some sort of what is almost a doubling effect.

Whenever any of this becomes an issue for me, I still grab an old little Mackie VLZ mixer. Very handy for plenty of things.

Recording vocals was the number one thing that made me want a new interface a year or so ago. Having a completely latency-free headphone mix for vocals is essential IMHO. Recording vocals via the Quantum was really annoying, even at the low latencies it can achieve.