Losing highs when rolling back volume on new ’64 Reissue ES-335.

[AdamBomb80]

Wanting to not lose the highs when turning the volume down on my 335. I cleared this up with my Les Paul by installing RS Superpots volumes and tones. I’ve never worked on 335 wiring so trying to find a way to avoid changing out the pots. Guitar is 2025 made ’64 Reissue ES-335 VOS. The caps are Luxe Sprague Black Beauties so they are great PIO caps.

Right now I’m just looking to retain the highs when rolling back volumes. Would a treble bleed be my only option other than changing pots? Also, if I did change the pots, would I need to change the tone pots also or just the volumes? Just wanting to retain highs. Not looking forward to working on 335 wiring but I have to have clean and clear volume cleanup.

 

[Chocol8]

You can try 50’s wiring, a treble bleed or an active buffer. All require pulling the pots out.

 

[adam]

You can try 50’s wiring, a treble bleed or an active buffer. All require pulling the pots out.

Could an external buffer work, or will the rolled volume e be darkened by the time it hits a buffer?

 

[iaresee]

Could an external buffer work, or will the rolled volume e be darkened by the time it hits a buffer?

No because it’s still after the RC filter circuit in the guitar. But you could try an active volume pedal in place of using the volume controls on the guitar. Lehle Mono or Mission VM-Pro. EB has an active one with a tuner built in to it. Berhringer FCV-100 if you’re on a budget.

 

[jay mitchell]

Wanting to not lose the highs when turning the volume down on my 335. I cleared this up with my Les Paul by installing RS Superpots volumes and tones.

RS Superpots are just slightly-modified CTS units. They will not reduce HF attenuation when turned down. They can't address the cause of the issue, which is the increase in the guitar's source impedance as the volume is reduced from 100%. High frequency loss is due to the interaction between this increasing source impedance and the shunt capacitance in the cable and the input of the amp or pedal the guitar is driving. You can reduce the loss by reducing cable capacitance. The simplest way to accomplish this is to shorten your guitar cable to the minimum length you can live with. It's still a partial solution at best.

What are you plugging your guitar into, and how long is the cable?

 

[newholland]

No because it’s still after the RC filter circuit in the guitar. But you could try an active volume pedal in place of using the volume controls on the guitar. Lehle Mono or Mission VM-Pro. EB has an active one with a tuner built in to it. Berhringer FCV-100 if you’re on a budget.

it absolutely works with something like a micro amp just because it stabilizes input impedance! sometimes also, if you have an input gain- driving it a little harder helps too.

 

[newholland]

it absolutely works with something like a micro amp just because it stabilizes input impedance! sometimes also, if you have an input gain- driving it a little harder helps too.

(just saw jays post above my own )

 

[iaresee]

it absolutely works with something like a micro amp just because it stabilizes input impedance! sometimes also, if you have an input gain- driving it a little harder helps too.

It’ll help but can’t complete negate it.

 

[gearJunkie]

 

[AdamBomb80]

RS Superpots are just slightly-modified CTS units. They will not reduce HF attenuation when turned down. They can't address the cause of the issue, which is the increase in the guitar's source impedance as the volume is reduced from 100%. High frequency loss is due to the interaction between this increasing source impedance and the shunt capacitance in the cable and the input of the amp or pedal the guitar is driving. You can reduce the loss by reducing cable capacitance. The simplest way to accomplish this is to shorten your guitar cable to the minimum length you can live with. It's still a partial solution at best.

What are you plugging your guitar into, and how long is the cable?

It’s a 10’ Runway Audio cable with the lowest capacitance of any guitar cable. Pedalboard cables all soldered with Square-plugs and low-cap cable, then Evidence Audio 12 foot to amp. It’s not my cables or rig, as stated I have another guitar that does not do this and retains highs beautifully when rolling back the volume.

 

[jay mitchell]

It’s a 10’ Runway Audio cable with the lowest capacitance of any guitar cable. Pedalboard cables all soldered with Square-plugs and low-cap cable, then Evidence Audio 12 foot to amp. It’s not my cables or rig,

So you're going through a bunch of bypassed pedals, then? Are they all direct (switched analog) bypass? Does the same thing happen if you plug your 10' guitar cable straight into the amp?

I have another guitar that does not do this and retains highs beautifully when rolling back the volume.

Different pickup characteristics and volume pot values will behave differently. Changing pots cannot fix the problem.

 

[GuitarsnGravel]

+1 for a treble bleed. It is a simple RC circuit. Installing the pots back into the 335 is not fun. I've done it twice and would prefer to never do it again.

 

[ccc118]

I usually change the wiring on Les Pauls to 50's wiring for this reason. In addition to maintaining the brightness when you turn the volume down, It does change the interaction between the tone and volume controls. Some people really like it and some don't. Since you mentioned having a Les Paul, you could test it out on that first to see if you like it. Working on the wiring on a 335 is apparently a huge pain, so it would be better to figure out what you want first. All you have to do is change the cap from the hot lug to the middle on the volume pot. The diagram has a different cap connection and grounding on the tone control, however I can't hear any difference. I usually don't bother changing anything on the tone pot unless replacing I'm replacing it with a new one.

 

[jay mitchell]

I usually change the wiring on Les Pauls to 50's wiring for this reason. In addition to maintaining the brightness when you turn the volume down, It does change the interaction between the tone and volume controls.

Neither 50's nor "modern" wiring change the fact that, as you turn down the guitar's volume from 100%, you increase the guitar's source impedance over a portion of the pot's travel. 50's wiring partially compensates for this by increasing the knee frequency of the HF-cut shelving filter formed by the tone capacitor and pot, placing the portion of the volume pot between its input and wiper in series with the tone pot. If you only ever play with your tone control completely open, this may be fine. OTOH, the operation of the tone control will be different for every position of the volume pot with 50's wiring.

Working on the wiring on a 335 is apparently a huge pain,

There are some tricks that make it much easier. You have to remove the pots, pickup selector switch, and output jack through the lower f-hole. Before doing that, it you tie lengths of dental floss to the threaded portions of each of these items and then tape the loose ends to the guitar body, you can then use the dental floss to pull the parts back into position when it's time to reinstall them. For that matter, you could do the dental floss trick after you've removed the parts, but I've found it easier to attach the floss in advance.

Once you've got the parts out of the guitar, you can make a holding template from card stock to match their relative locations in the guitar and mount the parts to the template before working on them. This is especially useful if you're going to be replacing pots and/or major portions of the wiring.

All you have to do is change the cap from the hot lug to the middle on the volume pot. The diagram has a different cap connection and grounding on the tone control,

The two arrangements are electrically identical.

however I can't hear any difference.

That's because there is no difference.

 

[Chocol8]

Could an external buffer work, or will the rolled volume e be darkened by the time it hits a buffer?

It only partially works. If you put an external buffer right after the guitar you reduce the cable capacitance that the pickups “see” but they are still loaded by the volume and tone circuits.

A buffer before the controls works better. The circuits are cheap and small, but with a 335, finding a convenient place for a battery might make it not work for many. The treble bleed is probably a better way to go. Tone preservation isn’t perfect but the components are cheap, tiny, and won’t require any guitar mods.

 

[newholland]

It only partially works. If you put an external buffer right after the guitar you reduce the cable capacitance that the pickups “see” but they are still loaded by the volume and tone circuits.

A buffer before the controls works better. The circuits are cheap and small, but with a 335, finding a convenient place for a battery might make it not work for many. The treble bleed is probably a better way to go. Tone preservation isn’t perfect but the components are cheap, tiny, and won’t require any guitar mods.

yeah, treble bleeds are okay, but i hated mine because they mess up the interaction with an amps dirt. i just found it sounded shittier and kankier as i rolled it back instead of just lessening dirt to a more usable level. out they came.

i think if i played mosly edge of breakup or just straight clean, theyd be fine for volume control. i just dont do that.

 

[Chocol8]

I am not a huge treble bleed fan either, but it is easier for a 335.

If it was mine, I would go with a buffer. I would probably reach out to @TVvoodoo to make me a custom strap with a pouch for a battery, buffer and jacks. You could run the signal from the selector to the buffer, back into the volume and tone controls, and then back out. The buffer could be switched as well so you could use it passive when desired.

 

[laxu]

I've got treble bleeds on a case-by-case basis. Currently my Yamaha SA-1200S (think ES-335) and G&L Legacy (Strat) have one. I'm planning to put one in my Jazzmaster because I don't like the way it darkens quite a bit by rolling down the volume control. Just need to find the right value to work with the 1M pots.