Let’s talk preamps!

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EOengineer

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I’d like to get a very small amount of outboard hardware, mainly for color/saturation/opinionated tracking choices. I’d like to start with a channel each of Neve 1073 and API 312.

I don’t want to break the bank but also don’t want junk. Also really prefer rack gear over 500 series stuff but I’m considering a 4-6 slot case if you can recommend one that is reasonable and provides full power to the slots.

Here’s some of the stuff I’ve been looking at

1073:
Heritage Audio HA73
500 series rack & seventh circle audio N72
GAP Premier 73
BLA B173 MK2

312:
Warm WA-12 mkII
500 series rack & seventh circle audio A12
500 series rack & Heritage Lang 312
BLA B12A

What are you all using?
 
I’ve got Chandler TG-2, API A2D, Focusrite ISA, and a decent Neve 1073 clone built by Sound Scourge.

I’ve owned a Warm WA12 API clone and also a GAP Pre73, and I was also considering the Heritage Audio HA 73. I’d personally avoid Warm and GAP, and probably the Heritage as well. I think it’s worth spending a small amount more and having better power supplies, better switches, better transformers etc. Those ones just compromise a hair too much for it to be worthwhile. The GAP sounded like an interface preamp and the Warm was a bit worse IMO.

CAPI and AML are your best bet for affordable and proper API and Neve clones imo. Focusrite ISA is great value for money. Sometimes you find Daking preamps going quite cheap too.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I’ve got Chandler TG-2, API A2D, Focusrite ISA, and a decent Neve 1073 clone built by Sound Scourge.

I’ve owned a Warm WA12 API clone and also a GAP Pre73, and I was also considering the Heritage Audio HA 73. I’d personally avoid Warm and GAP, and probably the Heritage as well. I think it’s worth spending a small amount more and having better power supplies, better switches, better transformers etc. Those ones just compromise a hair too much for it to be worthwhile.

CAPI and AML are your best bet for affordable and proper API and Neve clones imo. Focusrite ISA is great value for money. Sometimes you find Daking preamps going quite cheap too.
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Yeah you’re kind of confirming my impressions as I’m ramping up on the state of the preamp market. I’ve been out of the game a bit and am trying to backfill knowledge. I really don’t want to support Warm and the like.

What about 500 series gear assuming I get a case that conforms to the latest specs? I know there are issues with power/headroom/dynamics with some of the earlier 500 series stuff.
 
i have a wa12, and its definitely better than most interface pres, but its not as colorful as an api either. i find its best when you have to get a lotta gain outa something, and you hit it hard- like an sm7 or a ribbon mic. otherwise- i have no beef with clean focusrite pres. if you have better control over input gain than most chip based preamps, you can get better results outa a warm, i suspect, and saturate it a little.

insofar as affordable color... hoo.. i think you have it mostly listed. i have friends whove done great work with the ART tube MPA believe it or not. ive never really liked neve pres- though i know people like flattening out dynamics and sterilizing things into polishy gloss- i dont.. 😄 so my opinion isnt helpful there. (i kid.. but for fun more than anything- but my opinion really isnt worthwhile on that)
 
I mainly use a Millennia HV-3C when needed.
But I'm kind of in the same boat, would like to add some more outboard preamps for a different flavor. I'm always considering something from R. Neve, API or Grace Designs. Stuff is not cheap though and other studio gear would be more useful to me at the moment.

But it's nice to dream. :grin
 
EOengineer said:
Yeah you’re kind of confirming my impressions as I’m ramping up on the state of the preamp market. I’ve been out of the game a bit and am trying to backfill knowledge. I really don’t want to support Warm and the like.

What about 500 series gear assuming I get a case that conforms to the latest specs? I know there are issues with power/headroom/dynamics with some of the earlier 500 series stuff.
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Yeah, I’d say the AML and CAPI 500 series gear will be fine (even though traditionally Neve should be on higher voltage rails). There’s other brands making good clones too but I think these two have API and Neve locked down, where they’ll hold their own against legit vintage units. I think their power draw shouldn’t cause many issues for the chassis but it’s still best to go with a reputable brand (and it’ll hold its value better anyway).

Power supplies are so important, it’s really the one thing you don’t want to skimp on.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Yeah, I’d say the AML and CAPI 500 series gear will be fine (even though traditionally Neve should be on higher voltage rails). There’s other brands making good clones too but I think these two have API and Neve locked down, where they’ll hold their own against legit vintage units. I think their power draw shouldn’t cause many issues for the chassis but it’s still best to go with a reputable brand (and it’ll hold its value better anyway).

Power supplies are so important, it’s really the one thing you don’t want to skimp on.
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Looking around a bit more, I’m heavily leaning toward the Vintech x73i or BAE 1073mp for the neve side. Those seem like solid mid tier offerings.

I’ll probably poke around the 500 series market a bit more but I’d love to land with old school rack gear if I can. The 500 series stuff is definitely tempting in its abundance and versatility.
 
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EOengineer said:
Looking around a bit more, I’m heavily leaning toward the Vintech x73i or BAE 1073mp for the neve side. Those seem like solid mid tier offerings.

I’ll probably poke around the 500 series market a bit more but I’d love to land with old school rack gear if I can. The 500 series stuff is definitely tempting in its abundance and versatility.
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BAE stuff is about as good as it gets, and will hold its value better. Vintech is cool but maybe not quite on the same level if you can swing for BAE. AML do a rackmount 1073 with EQ that’s really good value but you have to source your own chassis/faceplate/knobs for it (there’s companies selling those bits though that will match it nicely).
 
If you are up for DIY 500 series, I recommend the CAPI VP28 preamp. It doubles as a line level saturation device with its unity gain mode.

Audioscape has some variety for pre-built options in 500 series and rack format. DIYRE has a 500-series Neve kit. The more faithful Neve pres will most likely use Carnell transformers.

I got into the 500 series a few years back and it’s tempting to fill up the rack. I have some other mid-tier preamps, and would likely acquire different pieces if I had to do it all over again.

I’ve read good things about Seventh Circle. They had their own format before offering 500 series recently.

About my other preamps:
Warm Tonebeast - I didn’t like it until I swapped the discrete op amps to CAPI and John Hardy. The stock API side was a bit wooly. Not a great idea on my end to buy something just to switch out more parts inside.

Stan SA73 - a now discontinued Neve 1290-ish preamp. It’s probably close to a GAP Pre73 Premier: upgraded transformers with generic passives. The long wait times associated with their products are not great.

Chameleon Labs 7603 - a less faithful Neve clone with EQ. The EQ part of it is cool and was worth the blowout price that I got it for. But the price has gone up drastically and I can’t recommend at those prices.
 
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MirrorProfiles said:
(even though traditionally Neve should be on higher voltage rails).
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Can I just double check that? Those old neve circuits run at 24v, so 500 series -16 to +16v surely is more (32v rail to rail)? Or am I misunderstanding something?

I've got 4 AML 1081s, I'd like more but they've been out of stock for the last month...
 
'About my other preamps:
Warm Tonebeast - I didn’t like it until I swapped the discrete op amps to CAPI and John Hardy. The stock API side was a bit wooly. Not a great idea on my end to buy something just to switch out more parts inside.'

whatchu talkin bout willis? we're guitar players. thats our birthright.
 
Cirrus said:
Can I just double check that? Those old neve circuits run at 24v, so 500 series -16 to +16v surely is more (32v rail to rail)? Or am I misunderstanding something?

I've got 4 AML 1081s, I'd like more but they've been out of stock for the last month...
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Think I got muddled with the Chandler modules which I think are +/-24V

Chandler Limited TG2–500

Can Chandler pack all of the EMI/Abbey Road sound for which they’re so famous into a single-module 500–series preamp?
www.soundonsound.com www.soundonsound.com
 
newholland said:
'About my other preamps:
Warm Tonebeast - I didn’t like it until I swapped the discrete op amps to CAPI and John Hardy. The stock API side was a bit wooly. Not a great idea on my end to buy something just to switch out more parts inside.'

whatchu talkin bout willis? we're guitar players. thats our birthright.
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Warm cheaped out on the op amp, a pretty integral part of their API-based preamp. The API 312 circuit is pretty much input transformer -> op amp -> output transformer, which is why the API-based circuits aren’t too expensive.

Discrete op amps are about $50 if anyone goes that route for preamps. Kits are about $20, but can be a little challenging to build.
 
I find it fascinating when you get right down to the granular building blocks that make up these things. With my AML ez1081s, I heard a clear difference just swapping the electrolytics out for tantalums, they distort differently. I follow discussions about different op amps in API circuits, I need to try out CAPI stuff at some point, but in the UK by the time you've added $100+ for shipping, 20% vat plus customs fees on top, it comes out pretty high for a pile of bits you still need to assemble.
 
Cirrus said:
I find it fascinating when you get right down to the granular building blocks that make up these things. With my AML ez1081s, I heard a clear difference just swapping the electrolytics out for tantalums, they distort differently. I follow discussions about different op amps in API circuits, I need to try out CAPI stuff at some point, but in the UK by the time you've added $100+ for shipping, 20% vat plus customs fees on top, it comes out pretty high for a pile of bits you still need to assemble.
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I just checked and shipping for AML gear into the US isn’t as bad. The price is very comparable to the DIyRE offering.

Sound Skulptor, based in France, has an API kit. I’ve seen the company name before but haven’t heard any clips.
 
Thanks for the input gents!

I’d been spoiled in my 20s and 30s working in rooms with all the vintage goodies. Now that I’m not in the industry anymore I’m remembering why I hate pro audio so much.

After lots of digging I’m beginning to harden my opinion on either the AMS 1073 SPX or the Vintech x73i. I want the EQ and the general vibe, don’t need a spot on replica so long as it’s reliable and I can drive it to get some color.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do for the API channel yet.
 
Man, I can only wishlist on all the stout rack gear I would love to have. :(

It's a bit of a gloryhole for me that my _________ will probably never truly know. :LOL:
 
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