Idk, I'm Calling BS on This Steve (Rothery of Marillion)

They might be good guitars for collecting in their original state, with a bit too much neck relief, old strings, fretwear and whatnot.
You can easily fix neck relief, old strings, and fret wear without impact value at all. Even go so far as a neck reset if needed.
 
Think of the vintage market.

Gibson, Fender, and some other brands = desirable vintage, with mojo, and superior tone.
Similar age guitars from other brands = just an old guitar.

It's all just bullshit based on brand name value more than anything.

Let's not forget you could not give away 1970s Gibsons and Fenders in the 1990s because people considered them to be crap, but a few decades later people are trying to pass those off as good. The reality is that those had good and bad examples, but they certainly didn't have some "good old wood" going for them.

Yes, today you have guitars made of wood that hasn't had as long time to grow etc, but at the same time those guitars can be made with higher precision and more likely drying those woods is a more advanced process as well.

My oldest guitar is now around 44 years old, give or take. It's a great guitar, but it's in no way better or worse than guitars that are "only" 20-35 years old, or even compared to my guitars that are only a few years old.

The oldest guitar is not collectable. It's not something people bring up when they say how good those old vintage guitars are. It's just an old guitar.

Years ago I had a chance to try some real vintage guitars, like acoustics from the 1930s, old Gretsch holllowbody etc. They all had a cool vibe to them, but they all played worse than any of my own guitars and certainly didn't sound better. Keeping them original to retain their value actively hurts their usability as guitars. But I can appreciate the vibe they have, so I totally understand seeking out old guitars for that.

I think people need to be more honest about this and say that they like the vibe of vintage guitars and are willing to pay what it costs to get that, rather than try to hype up their likely overpriced purchase by saying how it's soooo much better than anything made today.

I think it’s not just one thing, it’s more complicated than that.

You’re not wrong, for some the vintage thing is just a “this is old so it must be good/cool/hip/mojo-filled”, and some of it is about collectors and collector value more than the value of the instrument as a playable musical instrument.

But there is also something very true and real in the reasons others are drawn to vintage instruments. Some of them truly are special, and a completely different experience that you can’t find in new instruments.

It’s not just about brand name, or collections, or what people think is good. There is something real and special when you play a truly great vintage instrument. You just know it when you play it. It’s a very real experience.

In short, it’s different things to different people, and sometimes it’s about the specific instrument itself
 
Hey Beavis, I've got some "great wood"...

bnb.jpg
 
If you grow up listening to music from a particular era, then the gear from that era is just going to sound 'right'. I think it's as simple as that. Most of the people opining about 50s and 60s Gibsons and Fenders grew up listening to music made on those instruments.
 
One of the "holy crap" moments for me was playing a Custom Shop Fender 52 Tele, complete with all the relic wear. It's everything I would normally not want in a guitar...massive neck, small frets, 7.25" radius, vintage output pickups. But that thing was magical...it rang out so well and played itself, just a fantastic guitar. I almost never get that experience with production guitars.

Maybe it's wishful thinking but there's gotta be something builders can do to recreate at least most of the magic of a vintage guitar.

And all that to say, no you don't need that to make great music or make a million dollars with a hit song. But for the people with the money to only have magic guitars, there has to be options (even if they are boutique) to have new magic guitars instead of just the old ones that run 5-6 figures.
 
I don't necessarily agree with him but Rothery is such an amazing player I'm willing to give him a pass.
At the end of the day, it's art, it doesn't have to pass scientific scrutiny every time, I'm cool with an artist's eccentricities and superstitions, especially when the end result is as high a level as Rothery's.
 
Last edited:
I don't necessarily agree with him but Rothery is such an amazing player I'm willing to give him a pass.
At the end of the day, it's art, it doesn't have to pass scientific scrutiny every time, I'm cool with an artist's eccentricities and superstitions, especially when the end result is as high a level as Rothery's.
It's easy to fall into "appeal to authority" logical fallacies where famous players might say a bunch of stuff that is not true, but because they have the pedigree of being good players and having written great songs, they must also know about this subject.

To me great guitars are made all the time. We tend to build a personal connection with the guitars that appeal to us and it's hard to say what exactly are the things that make something feel and sound just right, but you kinda know when you try it. It's more a matter of finding those. I've sold some perfectly good guitars that for some reason just weren't "it."

Right before writing this I was playing my Schecter Coupe hollowbody, and that sounded just gorgeous with a bit of Marshall overdrive, or on a Fender clean sound with some reverb. It's made in 2019, in Indonesia.
 
It's easy to fall into "appeal to authority" logical fallacies where famous players might say a bunch of stuff that is not true, but because they have the pedigree of being good players and having written great songs, they must also know about this subject.
That's not what I was getting at all. I was saying Im ok with him believing what he wants because the result is great music. It doesn't mean it's true or that he's any kind of authority.

Also, I watched the whole interview and he spent exactly 30 seconds of an 1hr+ interview on the subject on this thread.
The vast majority of the interview is demonstrating his tones and playing.
 
THIS JUST IN: Relatively well-known guitarist admired for their music and skill on the instrument says some stuff deemed bull-shittery!

This has happened before. It'll happen again (as long as Joe Bonermassa and Steve Vai are around, anyway).
 
One of the "holy crap" moments for me was playing a Custom Shop Fender 52 Tele, complete with all the relic wear. It's everything I would normally not want in a guitar...massive neck, small frets, 7.25" radius, vintage output pickups. But that thing was magical...it rang out so well and played itself, just a fantastic guitar. I almost never get that experience with production guitars.

Maybe it's wishful thinking but there's gotta be something builders can do to recreate at least most of the magic of a vintage guitar.

And all that to say, no you don't need that to make great music or make a million dollars with a hit song. But for the people with the money to only have magic guitars, there has to be options (even if they are boutique) to have new magic guitars instead of just the old ones that run 5-6 figures.
There's something to be said about really dialing in a guitar to perform a certain way. Problem is, all players have certain criteria that fit their needs. It's very difficult for a standard model production guitar that fully suits them. We learn to adjust and accept a lot of things. But it's a big reason I like to roll my own partscasters and do all my own fretwork and electronics. The burden falls on me to have a really great playing guitar that satisfies my wants and needs.
 
It's easy to fall into "appeal to authority" logical fallacies where famous players might say a bunch of stuff that is not true, but because they have the pedigree of being good players and having written great songs, they must also know about this subject.
Oh, heaven forbid we appeal to the authority figure who might be talking out of his ass but does also have a lot of experience playing well set up vintage instruments. Instead we should definitely listen to the guy whose only experience with vintage instruments seems to be playing crap-tastic yard sale finds pulled straight out of the attic with Black Diamond strings from 1964 still installed.
 
Hey, if someone hears and feels a difference who am I to question their personal experience with it? As long as they don't go out of their way to convince me to feel the same way it's all good.
 
Oh, heaven forbid we appeal to the authority figure who might be talking out of his ass but does also have a lot of experience playing well set up vintage instruments. Instead we should definitely listen to the guy whose only experience with vintage instruments seems to be playing crap-tastic yard sale finds pulled straight out of the attic with Black Diamond strings from 1964 still installed.
Are these my only two options?
 
Honestly, I think most people commenting here didn't watch the interview past the first 30 seconds and are not familiar with his work.

Rothery's #1 is a Squier strat. With EMGs. And a Kahler trem. Which he plugs into a Boss DS1 and a Roland JC120.
He also has some oddball guitars like a Blade RH4 etc
His gear choices are really interesting. He's kind of the opposite of a vintage snob.
 
Honestly, I think most people commenting here didn't watch the interview past the first 30 seconds and are not familiar with his work.

Rothery's #1 is a Squier strat. With EMGs. And a Kahler trem. Which he plugs into a Boss DS1 and a Roland JC120.
He also has some oddball guitars like a Blade RH4 etc
His gear choices are really interesting. He's kind of the opposite of a vintage snob.
Here I Am Mirror GIF by Jeopardy!
 
Back
Top