How Do You Use Delay In Solos?

[TSJMajesty]

Specifically, when using the upper half of the guitar's register, when there's no consistency to the rhythm of the solo, i.e., there's everything from whole notes on up to sextuplets..., how do you keep it from getting too muddy?

For example, do you use an expression pedal linked to the mix level parameter, and modulate it while soloing?

Do you set the mix level and forget it, relying instead on filtering out certain frequencies of the repeats?

When pros discuss their rigs, I don't see much talked about in regard to this aspect. They'll mention their stereo delay times, but that's usually about it.

I love a stereo delay set to different times for left and right, but I'm having trouble keeping the space filled like I like it, without the delay overpowering the dry path at times.

Or what about using an EP, but set to the amount of feedback, so when you hit a long note, you can let those repeats linger?

All of the above?

I know I can just try these for myself, but I was hoping you guys would offer your own ideas of how you like to do it, for various types of solos.

 

[slip]

Isaiah Mitchell uses an analog delay and just manually sets the delay speed and feedback for each song. For effect he will tweak the knobs to create chaotic effects.

 

[Solarflares]

Guess this is my area.
Let’s ignore rhythmic repeats, and hypnotic looping, and reverse delay, for now.
Firstly, I would always aim to have the most natural-sounding spread to the image.
The guitar’s core sound should be thickened with a short spring reverb or room sound, in a narrow stereo image.
Delay should be between 325 and 405 milliseconds, with only 2 and a half repeats.
I like to use an 825ms delay, fed by the first delay and the core-sound. Maybe 1 and a half repeats.
These delays should be panned left and right, but not hard-panned.
Then apply a global reverb. Something like a concert hall. 3 seconds max, with 50mS pre-delay.
Reverse the pan of the reverb, so left delay reverbs on the right and vice Versa.
You don’t need lots of reverb, but it should be apparent on everything.
Now back off the delay’s level, until it is just discernible.
Play with levels to get in a reasonable mix state - then begin to play with the EQ of delays and reverb.
There will be a setting that is not too detailed, nor too dull. - one that melds well with the core sound, for what you want.
At this point, you can play what you need. If the delay is too obtrusive then it is too loud, or has too much detail.
Important point - you will need to adjust your playing, to not fight the delay’s timing. Some flurries will not work.
Learn to play off the delays. They are there to enhance, and provide dramatic backdrop. Those 16th notes might be a mess, but triplets aren’t. 30ms of change might improve 16th note definition, and fight triplet playing. There’s no perfect setting for everything. But we can still use one patch for everything, if we discipline and use our ears.
Your phrasing must be sympathetic to the aural environment you have set up - in order to convey the information fully.

Personally I feel ducking-delay is a false, unnatural solution, and an ignorant use of something that should be a constant.

 

[Orvillain]

Isaiah Mitchell uses an analog delay and just manually sets the delay speed and feedback for each song. For effect he will tweak the knobs to create chaotic effects.

Siccckkkkkkk

 

[DrewJD82]

Sometimes an expression pedal is necessary to work with the mix/repeats, I’ll set that up if the solo has some fast sections as well as sustained notes and I totally snagged that from Petrucci’s rigs back in the day.

I usually just set min and max settings on the EP so I don’t have to worry about moving it too far and the delays going apeshit.

 

[Solarflares]

Isaiah Mitchell uses an analog delay and just manually sets the delay speed and feedback for each song. For effect he will tweak the knobs to create chaotic effects.

Delay is too loud. He often has to wait for it to catch up. That is bad. Too many repeats. Delays distorting the Marshall’s input stage. It’s fucking amateur hour.
His core fucking tone is really dreadful. No command. No fucking idea.
Everything that is wrong about everything.
Aim for better.

 

[Orvillain]

Because I go straight into the front of the amp, my approach is a bit different to how you might do it with a delay in the effects loop.

1. I use both digital and analog delays.
2. I always use tap tempo.
3. I dial in the mix and feedback specifically for my high-gain sounds.
4. If I need different mix and feedback for my clean, I'll use a specific preset on my DD-500 for the clean sounds, and then my regular one for the gain sounds.
5. I embrace a bit of the mud.
6. I sometimes use a bit of ducking, but not too much. I don't want it to completely suck out all of the delay when I play a note.
7. Part of my style inherently involves the delay swamping my playing occasionally, and gluing the leads all together a bit.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I use it around 480ms, feedback low (about 1 to 1.5 repeats) and mixed at about 20% for leads and 15% for rhythm. So it's not a huge delay sound, just something to take the dryness off the tone.

 

[Solarflares]

341ms is the yardstick. Standard Binson, Copycat timing.
Anything higher is long.
Anything lower is short.

Allan Holdsworth is the ethereal master of the longer variety. Running at about 420ms, with 4 delays spread over a 200ms window.
10.40 is where his delay approach shines.

 

[BFRaid]

It really depends on the song, but typically I use an expression pedal to control the delay time or mix.

 

[la szum]

So many variables with a delay.

Analog is always going to be murkier than digital. I am not an always kind of guy either.


Also, higher feedback (repeats) settings are fun for really open sections of a song, but not so much for denser
sections.

To limit the murk I'd go digital, limit the modulation (if any), and lower the feedback. Those 3 things are
where the repeats can build up and start to fall all over themselves----which is cool if that is what you
want.

An EP Pedal set to control the Mix level is great advice.

 

[la szum]

I am in Slapback Terrritory right now, which is an interesting change of pace.


Not really applicable to the discussion here, but fun for me to mess around with trying to cop some
"Yes, I really am that old now!" vibes.

 

[metropolis_4]

My usual go-to is something like this:

• Dark analog delay (like a Carbon Copy)
• Delay time somewhere around 350ms
• Feedback and level set so I hear 1 more distinct repeat followed by 2 quiet repeats

Sometimes on digital I’ll split the signal path and have a dry signal I can mix with the delay signal.

I don’t try to set the time to match the rhythm/tempo of the song. I prefer it not to

 

[Solarflares]

My usual go-to is something like this:

• Dark analog delay (like a Carbon Copy)
• Delay time somewhere around 350ms
• Feedback and level set so I hear 1 more distinct repeat followed by 2 quiet repeats

Sometimes on digital I’ll split the signal path and have a dry signal I can mix with the delay signal.

I don’t try to set the time to match the rhythm/tempo of the song. I prefer it not to

Nice, sensible approach

 

[FracKing]

Neal Schon is known to reach a fairly good medium speed at times...

His FAS GoT preset included an input mix for the delay, IIRC.

You could check if he uses the pedal during solos depending on his melodic lines and speed bursts. And of not, if his delay bothers you.