How cheap can this level of functionality get?

[KingsXJJ]

Take a moment to check out what just over $200 get you. Yes, I realize it’s not Fractal level yet… but it will be soon I think. I give it 5 years max and I think the tech and tones will be ubiquitously available. Will there always be a top dog or two? I believe so but I think the differences will start to become diminishing returns. Again, read the spec sheet and look at the hardware it’s offered on. It may not be something everyone might be interested in but it does offer pretty much everything needed for guitar in a home studio or even live play. $230!?!? Kinda neat. We have Hotone and others knocking on the higher tier modeler’s doors and now M-VAVE knocking on the Hotone’s Ampero II’s door. This is trickle-down technomics at its best IMO.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808573023963.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.7.71727mme7mmevQ&algo_pvid=b3e4345f-651a-4eb1-8855-469302a6f5fa&algo_exp_id=b3e4345f-651a-4eb1-8855-469302a6f5fa-6&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2213%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21468.82%21234.41%21%21%213414.58%211707.29%21%402103010b17445632049963170e4fdb%2112000046551000068%21sea%21US%212378866579%21X&curPageLogUid=ONp4JGIIPMyG&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

 

[laxu]

But is it actually any good? There have been cheap multifx for ages, they have just gotten better with each generation from absolute turds to becoming fairly decent. But I fully expect that to be a short-term product replaced by a "M-VAVE MK-400" in 1-2 years.

I'm honestly surprised that the Hotone Ampero 2 has been relatively long lived and well supported. Having taken it completely apart recently, I'm also surprised how smart design it is. Technically any board could be easily replaced by a tech-savvy user if the manufacturer is willing to sell the parts.

 

[dk_ace]

Fully featured, cheap multifx modeling units have been out for over 10 years. They’re cool for what they are, but they have never gotten close to fractal level stuff and I don’t see them doing it in the next 5 years either. When someone is that far ahead of you, while you’re trying to catch up they are pulling further away from you unless they quit developing.

I’m more interested in what @FractalAudio can accomplish with quantum computing…

D

 

[laxu]

Fully featured, cheap multifx modeling units have been out for over 10 years. They’re cool for what they are, but they have never gotten close to fractal level stuff and I don’t see them doing it in the next 5 years either. When someone is that far ahead of you, while you’re trying to catch up they are pulling further away from you unless they quit developing.

They're not even chasing the big dogs though, just don't have the R&D budget for it.

While I'm impressed by how good overall the Hotone for example sounds with its amp models, there's plenty of clear issues with them. Yet I was happily playing e.g the Bogner Ecstacy model yesterday, and it didn't sound worse than captures for sure. Hotone uses an interesting mix of component and machine learning models, probably in some ways not that far off from Kemper's "Liquid Profiling" in concept.

I think we are entering this era where good sounding (not necessarily accurate!) amp modeling is no longer the domain of the more expensive modelers. In reality most people out there don't know what the amp models they're playing actually sound like.

 

[ian_dissonance]

But is it actually any good? There have been cheap multifx for ages, they have just gotten better with each generation from absolute turds to becoming fairly decent. But I fully expect that to be a short-term product replaced by a "M-VAVE MK-400" in 1-2 years.

Four $250 who gives a shit? At that price range if it works every day for a couple years it’s worth it. And if a new one comes out, it’s just like anything else buy it don’t. It’s not like you’re locked into an “ecosystem” you paid a premium to deal with.

 

[dk_ace]

They're not even chasing the big dogs though, just don't have the R&D budget for it.

While I'm impressed by how good overall the Hotone for example sounds with its amp models, there's plenty of clear issues with them. Yet I was happily playing e.g the Bogner Ecstacy model yesterday, and it didn't sound worse than captures for sure. Hotone uses an interesting mix of component and machine learning models, probably in some ways not that far off from Kemper's "Liquid Profiling" in concept.

I think we are entering this era where good sounding (not necessarily accurate!) amp modeling is no longer the domain of the more expensive modelers. In reality most people out there don't know what the amp models they're playing actually sound like.

I agree I was just responding to the OP.

I don’t mess with much of the new low end stuff. The last ones I used were the zoom g3 and 5, and they were more than capable of sounding good for a gig. I used them at times live and they sounded fine. They didn’t sound or feel accurate to the real amps, but I didn’t have much trouble pulling “my” sound out of them and getting to work. This level of stuff has been good enough for a long time.

Heck, I still see digitech RP units on stage more than I would expect to. Saw one on a stage yesterday, and he sounded great.

I’ll still keep my fractal though.

D

 

[[Nathan]]

Its cool that anyone can jump in and get something cheap that does the job like this... but lets be real, its just a bottom tier pool of sound that's pretty uninteresting in the grand scheme. There's tons to choose from and I guess as time passes new cheap units look cool have more features / updated sounds but eh, same tier.

Fractal seems to be the only one delivering interesting updates year on year. Line6 is cool but its like one update a year, TMP I thought would be faster but I think its every 6+ months so far. QC is spending 3-4 years getting a handful of plugins running on their device.

Objectively seems like if you care about new / cool cutting edge sounds then Fractal is leading the pack. If you were a customer who even dropped $999 on a FM3 on launch you'd have gotten so much bang for your buck it makes the cheaper purchases look not great at all. I get its horses for courses but we're not on the entry level guitarists forum, we're on TGF .

Not hating on the cheap stuff, I'd recommend to a friend looking to noodle around for sure. But like any hobby/industry you'll outgrow that beginner gear and I think all this stuff will always be beginner for various reasons. I dont think Parkway Drive or Killswitch Engage will be gigging with a Hotone unit anytime soon.

 

[Whizzinby]

Yeah, we’re witness to the digital race to the bottom.

 

[newpedals]

Take a moment to check out what just over $200 get you. Yes, I realize it’s not Fractal level yet… but it will be soon I think. I give it 5 years max and I think the tech and tones will be ubiquitously available. Will there always be a top dog or two? I believe so but I think the differences will start to become diminishing returns. Again, read the spec sheet and look at the hardware it’s offered on. It may not be something everyone might be interested in but it does offer pretty much everything needed for guitar in a home studio or even live play. $230!?!? Kinda neat. We have Hotone and others knocking on the higher tier modeler’s doors and now M-VAVE knocking on the Hotone’s Ampero II’s door. This is trickle-down technomics at its best IMO.

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https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808573023963.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.7.71727mme7mmevQ&algo_pvid=b3e4345f-651a-4eb1-8855-469302a6f5fa&algo_exp_id=b3e4345f-651a-4eb1-8855-469302a6f5fa-6&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2213%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21468.82%21234.41%21%21%213414.58%211707.29%21%402103010b17445632049963170e4fdb%2112000046551000068%21sea%21US%212378866579%21X&curPageLogUid=ONp4JGIIPMyG&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

How are the reverb algorithms?

Had checked out a cheap multi effects (I think it was by valeton, two footswitch). The reverb algos on it were comparable with a RV-3 but not Bluesky.

People like Valeton/ M Vave are catching up but still have a lot to work on, quality-wise.

This will definitely work in a band situation though. Artifacts (if any) are audible only while playing at home.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

It's normal for this kind of stuff, even outside of guitar gear. Stuff like Cd players, VCRs, etc went though the same process, extremely expensive when they came out and a few decades later you could buy good ones for next to nothing, but the top of the line stuff was still there.
I don't think modelers are quite there yet, but there will come a time where you can buy one that's actually really good for cheap.
At the present time the cheaper units still have some serious compromises but that gap will continue to narrow.

But I don't think that has any effect on the top brands as they will also continue to evolve and cater to the most discerning/pro players.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I think there’s some hardware components in the MI industry that will never come down in price because the scale just isn’t big enough.

 

[nikitasius]

Power/filtering, PCB design, fw code

 

[KingsXJJ]

Yeah, we’re witness to the digital race to the bottom.

Actually no. The race to the bottom is long over. Now it’s a race to becoming a commodity.

How long before we see $100 NAM players? We will.